Remove Shreck from Volks

Why not just make Volks 240 MP and Conscript 2.0 longer range DPS Scripts win up close blah blah blah. Give them Pfaust and sure they will outscale conscripts but lets be honest here. What doesnt?

If you give them STG44s and keep their Vet the same ummmm 235 MP non doctrinal Shock Troops anyone?

Because that wont work. Volks without Schrecks and meaningful weapon upgrade would literally break OKW and make Volks all but useless.
Also, 3 StGs does not Shocks make. Shocks have smoke, 80% (?) accuracy on the move with the strongest close range DPS in the game, and most importantly, armor.

Because that wont work. Volks without Schrecks and meaningful weapon upgrade would literally break OKW and make Volks all but useless.
Also, 3 StGs does not Shocks make. Shocks have smoke, 80% (?) accuracy on the move with the strongest close range DPS in the game, and most importantly, armor.

Which at Vet 3 isnt as good as the Recieved Accuracy of Volks. That is my comparison. No at first they wouldnt be bad. But STGs would increase their XP gain much like Shreks. Combine this with their cheap cost (low XP pool) and youll have an incredibly durable and cheap version of Shock Troops lite come mid game.

I fail to see if Soviets can get buy with Scripts OKW couldnt with Volks working in the same fashion.

Actually strongest close range dps belongs to thompson paras.

You can't forget as well that volks get 2x 30% accuracy vet.

Vet0 volks are indeed prety underwhelming, but vet4 ones are monsters.

I think the ONLY solution Relic can come up with is nerfing the shreks to be in line with zooks. Unless, Relic decides to completely do away with Vet 5 system, just don't see any other option.

Actually strongest close range dps belongs to thompson paras.

You can't forget as well that volks get 2x 30% accuracy vet.

Vet0 volks are indeed prety underwhelming, but vet4 ones are monsters.

The issue lay in the fact that it's dumb how you have Allies which excel in the early game and the Axis who excel in the late game, resulting in an insanely dumb way of balancing were if the game lasts a certain amount of time Axis auto win (Unless you go all in with all IS2's) but it remains extremely easy for allies to win the game in the first 5-9 minutes.

The factions should honestly be more based around counters rather than a ever escalating 1 up contest in the way current tech structures work. Since in a game of "Who has the biggest dick" Axis will normally win (with the exception of the IS2 which is the second best Heavy in the game).

I think the ONLY solution Relic can come up with is nerfing the shreks to be in line with zooks. Unless, Relic decides to completely do away with Vet 5 system, just don't see any other option.

You know that Riflemen vet up quite fast when using Zooks to right? They just only have 3 levels instead of 5.

You know that Riflemen vet up quite fast when using Zooks to right? They just only have 3 levels instead of 5.

They can't, since they fail to penetrate and deal less damage

They can't, since they fail to penetrate and deal less damage

But they do damage faster, not to mention doing any damage at all as a non-fuel cost unit to a fuel costing unit gets you a nice chunk of veteran. I'm not saying it's on the level of shreks, but it it's there.

Which at Vet 3 isnt as good as the Recieved Accuracy of Volks. That is my comparison. No at first they wouldnt be bad. But STGs would increase their XP gain much like Shreks. Combine this with their cheap cost (low XP pool) and youll have an incredibly durable and cheap version of Shock Troops lite come mid game.

I fail to see if Soviets can get buy with Scripts OKW couldnt with Volks working in the same fashion.

Because again, Soviets have a vastly different faction dynamic than OKW. I mean one could try this, in Kappatch Volks briefly had 3 Mp40s, it took all of 2 days or so to reverse it - it does not work. Mp40s are a downgrade.

Bob: There is a reason SMGs have all but disappeared even in police use. For military applications they make even less sense, especially with the proliferation of body armour. Not much if any weight/bulk benefit over a compact assault rifle, massive range penalty, much less kj downrange, and outside of conversational distance, what semi-competent marksman would ever use full auto anyways?

They can't, since they fail to penetrate and deal less damage

Its more of an issue their are no p4's for them to take on. zooks are worthwhile if the enemy uses large amount of medium armour but the entire wher meta either revolves around vehicles and heavy tanks.

Actually strongest close range dps belongs to thompson paras.

You can't forget as well that volks get 2x 30% accuracy vet.

Vet0 volks are indeed prety underwhelming, but vet4 ones are monsters.

But before you get close enough to Obers, you have 3models left and less than 50% hp

The issue lay in the fact that it's dumb how you have Allies which excel in the early game and the Axis who excel in the late game, resulting in an insanely dumb way of balancing were if the game lasts a certain amount of time Axis auto win (Unless you go all in with all IS2's) but it remains extremely easy for allies to win the game in the first 5-9 minutes.

The factions should honestly be more based around counters rather than a ever escalating 1 up contest in the way current tech structures work. Since in a game of "Who has the biggest dick" Axis will normally win (with the exception of the IS2 which is the second best Heavy in the game).

You know that Riflemen vet up quite fast when using Zooks to right? They just only have 3 levels instead of 5.

Well the good thing is that since PQ is gone we might be able to get some real balance changes in. I agree that the way Relic tends to balance things is rather subpar.

Well the good thing is that since PQ is gone we might be able to get some real balance changes in. I agree that the way Relic tends to balance things is rather subpar.

The bad thing is, out of all people who attempted to balance coh2 from relic, PQ did best job, so if I were you I would lower the bar of expectation.
You should probably start digging right now if you want to put it low enough to be happy with the changes made by author of old Tiger Ace&co.

Its more of an issue their are no p4's for them to take on. zooks are worthwhile if the enemy uses large amount of medium armour but the entire wher meta either revolves around vehicles and heavy tanks.

Pretty much, Zooks do pretty good DPS. The issue is that what they are meant to be used against is medium armor, not heavy tanks.

Pretty much, Zooks do pretty good DPS. The issue is that what they are meant to be used against is medium armor, not heavy tanks.

OKW + Ostheer have Schrecks. Vs Soviets, understandable against big call ins.

An American player has little to say with Bazookas doesnt he? Boom. King Tiger. Boom. Tiger Ace.

Oh the glorious 60 munitions i spend on these! Only to see them bounce or miss.

Meant to be used medium armor? Youre funny. Give the factions with the strongest Anti tank weaponry the sturdiest and strongest tanks. Oh balance!

Because again, Soviets have a vastly different faction dynamic than OKW. I mean one could try this, in Kappatch Volks briefly had 3 Mp40s, it took all of 2 days or so to reverse it - it does not work. Mp40s are a downgrade.

Soviets are fundamentally different. But the problem for OKW would be early vehicles. The solution right now is Shreks. Shreks are making other things less viable when attached to Volks.

A snare and a Rak would be effective against light vehicles. And once techd up or JLI/Falls chosen then Volks no longer have an issue as they can be supported by HEAVY AI infantry. As if you put STs in every Soviet Doctrine.

The MP40s suck in this game. Period. The STG44 DOES NOT. If you simply made Volks as good Vanilla as scripts then like scripts you have a snare unit with an AI shelf life. But both can handle light vehicles so the problem is solved. Of course Volks will still get WAY better then Scripts with vet. So there is an added bonus. And not to mention Faust has always been better then the paid side grade that is AT nades.

So overall Volks would be MUCH better then Conscripts when all is taken into account. I dont see how that could possibly be problem. Unless you talk about another unit being better at everything then conscripts. But I have always thought Volks were better personally. AI alone does not make a unit good nor bad.

OKW + Ostheer have Schrecks. Vs Soviets, understandable against big call ins.

An American player has little to say with Bazookas doesnt he? Boom. King Tiger. Boom. Tiger Ace.

Oh the glorious 60 munitions i spend on these! Only to see them bounce or miss.

Meant to be used medium armor? Youre funny. Give the factions with the strongest Anti tank weaponry the sturdiest and strongest tanks. Oh balance!

The point isn't that it's alright that they are only good against mediums, it's just that in the current meta right now they don't preform well because people neglect the Axis mediums because they are quite easy to counter. Ostheer T3 is in a horrible place at the monument, and OKW has no medium tank.

You want to see less heavy spam? How about giving OKW a MBT that costs less than 175 fuel. You can't whine that OKW only make Heavy/Powerful tanks when that's pretty much all they have.

Instead of removing the shrek option for volks, why not instead limit the amount of shreks one can upgrade, meaning, having a set rule for 3-4 shreks to be on the battlefield at any time per player.

Instead of removing the shrek option for volks, why not instead limit the amount of shreks one can upgrade, meaning, having a set rule for 3-4 shreks to be on the battlefield at any time per player.

doesnt solve the problem

OKW + Ostheer have Schrecks. Vs Soviets, understandable against big call ins.

An American player has little to say with Bazookas doesnt he? Boom. King Tiger. Boom. Tiger Ace.

Oh the glorious 60 munitions i spend on these! Only to see them bounce or miss.

Meant to be used medium armor? Youre funny. Give the factions with the strongest Anti tank weaponry the sturdiest and strongest tanks. Oh balance!

for the record shreks do not fare well against the heavy soviet armor either. both weapons are meant against medium armour 2 factions huse medium armour their fore shrek works.

so stop crying imbalance

for the record shreks do not fare well against the heavy soviet armor either. both weapons are meant against medium armour 2 factions huse medium armour their fore shrek works.

so stop crying imbalance

Are you joking? Even if would have to choose between Schreck or Bazooka, i'd take the Schreck. Tell me, why on earth is the Bazooka worse than the Schreck. Why cant it cost 90 muni too. Asymmetrical balance? Wow. Lol.

And btw, Schrecks do reasonably well vs Soviet armour. My experience atleast.