Absolutely not unless you give Volks better AI damage. Volksgrenadiers get absolutely clowned by every infantry in the game at early-mid game; they're the worst main infantry unit in the game because both the Rus and the Americans can just run up to them and win.
If you want Volks to not have Panzershreks then you need to buff the Raketenwerfer so it doesn't take 10 seconds to aim, and when it finally does fire, it completely misses. You also need to give Volks the ability to actually engage enemy infantry at long range and win. Countless matches where my volks engage the enemy at long range, and US rifles literally just walk up and force a retreat.
Remove Shreck from Volks
- This thread is locked
9 Feb 2015, 03:55 AM
#141
Posts: 314
 | Playercard of S.T.A.R.S// Grimsdottir | |||||||||||||||||||
|
9 Feb 2015, 04:35 AM
#142
Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1
The powerfulness of Shreck isn't the shreck itself or volks, just that OKW can spend all its ammo in it.Jaigen?
What make 1919 good but not that overpowered, the fact USF need ammo for many others abilities. Of course you can decide to invest all your ammo in it, but at the end, that's a strategic decision and it weaken you somewhere else.
Make volks shreck blob costing the same, but add or increase all other ammo prices of OKW abilites, add an ammo price to obers LMG, to falls, tojaigen
to panzerfusiliers etc... and you' ll see a decrease of shreck spam. People will have to make strategic decisions again and decide how best invest ammo and fuel to have enough AI and AT on the field.
Today it is just easy to spend any single munitions point on shreck since you know you'll have ammo free AI stuff.
I think you meant Jager. Is it even worth paying for their G43 that snipes people if it's implemented. I don't see many people use it very effectively.
_____________________________________________________________________________
9 Feb 2015, 05:12 AM
#143
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Puma up? Seriously? That thing wrecks allied stock mediums unless you play it wrong. It has good survivability since it has smoke. And quityerbitchin about pen rates. Try Jacksons vs heavies and then we might talk. Puma out ranges everything that isn't a td. To quote many better men than me "L2P issue."
I still fail to grasp how okw would fall apart if shreks were moved to sturms. You'd get a snare and ai upgrade for volks and everybody always has 2 sturms by mid anyway. You'd have 4 shreks still, where is the problem? Also your raketenwerfer would get buffed too. This would add a bit of depth to the faction, not cripple it.
God forbid you can't get the best at weapon on your cheap nigh invincible infantry.
No one is saying the Puma as a unit sucks, it doesn't. But there is a difference between saying it's bad and it's not worth the fuel. You would be better getting a Puma then say, spamming flak traks if your intent is to counter light armor. But generally your better off saving fuel for a Schwer or using your early game fuel to get a Flak trak if you need to counter infantry/scout cars or a Stuka if you need to counter weapons team spam. This of course assumes you went Mechanized. If you went battlegroup it doesn't matter because no one in there right mind is going to go BG -> Mechanized unless you have a team make backing you up.
The issue people have is that giving shreks to sturms would basically make them Pgren's 2.0 which is boring. And making Volks grens 2.0 by giving them AI and Snare is boring.
Hey here is this faction that does alright for itself, lets make it's early game model literally the worst faction's in the game.
9 Feb 2015, 06:08 AM
#144
Posts: 1439
Just because you play against terrible players doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. You know what would have countered those mediums a million times better? Shreks. You know what does well against IS2's? The Panther, Jadgpanzer will also do work.
Stop trying to sell people this retarded bullshit that just because you beat a idiot using them, or got insanely lucky with penetration that the Puma is worth 70 fuel at a reduced income when could be spending that fuel on something that has a lot better transition mid to late game.
Just because you don't have a clue or skill how to use a unit it doesn't mean its under performing.
Stop creating problems where there is none. I play 1v1 and 2v2 only and I can see how in large team games Puma would be neglected due to increase rate of tech but this shouldn't compromise the balance of more relevant game modes.
Edit:
Also I like how you assumed I play against bad players because I don't know why. I guess that's what you do when you run out of counter arguments.
I play against players that are so bad they would flood you with Shermans and T-34 when you would try to stall a game waiting for Panther.
I'm not saying I go Puma every game but when I do I get my moneys worth.
Last time I checked I was around 1000 elo 2v2 as OKW. I haven't played for a few weeks now as I'm waiting for new patch but since meta has been stale for almost 3 months I don't think it matters.
9 Feb 2015, 09:13 AM
#145
Posts: 144
It costs 182 fuel, 66 for the truck and 116 for the puma. Numbers adjusted for reduced fuel income.
It really doesn't over preform for it's cost, sorry.
Sorry, but the truck costs 40 fuel and the Puma 70. For a 70 fuel unit, it is overperforming. The fuel income reduction is just there to "delay" the teching. And you will note how it work well since OKW has the fastest tech system of all faction.
9 Feb 2015, 10:35 AM
#146
Posts: 1130
And here lies the problem;
Vet 1: -10% received accuracy
Vet 3: -10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
Vet 5: -29% received accuracy
Vet 5 volks have near -50% received accuracy, on top of a squad that has 1 Shreck.
If volks loose the shreck however there will be no reason to build them over sturmpios.
Adjusting the vet is the way to go, While Panzergrens have dual Shrecks they are very vulnerable
T-34 can do a lot of damage to them.
In the end just make volks more vulnerable to fire 49% is a insane bonus.
You do realize that pg's ave the same durability at vet 2 and that received accuracy does jack against the tanks main cannon?
horrida flamma bella
9 Feb 2015, 10:39 AM
#147
Posts: 1130
Just because you don't have a clue or skill how to use a unit it doesn't mean its under performing.
Stop creating problems where there is none. I play 1v1 and 2v2 only and I can see how in large team games Puma would be neglected due to increase rate of tech but this shouldn't compromise the balance of more relevant game modes.
No you are selling BS. I know how to use it and most other people do as well. is this unit worth getting over to teching to tier 3 no? is this unit worth getting over the panther or even the jp 4? the answer is no.
If you compare this unit to the m10 the okw gets shafted and you and the rest of the fanboys here tend to ignore this little bit of information.
horrida flamma bella
9 Feb 2015, 12:03 PM
#148
Posts: 322
You do realize that pg's ave the same durability at vet 2 and that received accuracy does jack against the tanks main cannon?
You do realize that tanks are not the only thing in one said fight and pgrens have 1 less man, And cost
340 instead of 235.
Oh and pgrens are ost T2 while volks are T0.
9 Feb 2015, 12:22 PM
#149
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
In the end just make volks more vulnerable to fire 49% is a insane bonus.Just a slight nitpick, the bonuses in question actually combine to a total of -42.5% received accuracy
(0.9 * 0.9 * 0.71 = 0.5751 received accuracy)
It's still batshit insane though - it means they will last almost twice as long versus small arms.
This is before factoring in cover modifiers.
9 Feb 2015, 13:09 PM
#150
Posts: 710
Jaigen & QueenRatchet123, settle down lovers.
9 Feb 2015, 13:31 PM
#151
Posts: 149
It's just crazy with how effective shreks are and how tough volks are. Once they're past vet 2 it's VERY hard to wipe them. The fact that shreks 100% pen all allied armor except maybe four heavies/big mids makes it worse.
Axis have the best infantry at while fighting lighter armor just makes it so that even one volks poses a real threat to a single sherman, even with h.e. rounds. If I see two volks I generally won't even try to engage with armor, which is silly. Imagine if p4s got scared off by rifles with zooks. It just seems like having your cake and eating it too.
I don't think making volks a better ai unit is bad. Having a snare isn't either. I think it could be fixed if they got rid of the insane received accuracy and made something other than shreks to spend munitions on. It should be a bit riskier to make all your front line infantry AT specialists.
Axis have the best infantry at while fighting lighter armor just makes it so that even one volks poses a real threat to a single sherman, even with h.e. rounds. If I see two volks I generally won't even try to engage with armor, which is silly. Imagine if p4s got scared off by rifles with zooks. It just seems like having your cake and eating it too.
I don't think making volks a better ai unit is bad. Having a snare isn't either. I think it could be fixed if they got rid of the insane received accuracy and made something other than shreks to spend munitions on. It should be a bit riskier to make all your front line infantry AT specialists.
PL#freeKatitofPL
9 Feb 2015, 13:53 PM
#152
Posts: 1439
Maybe solution is making Volks less resilient?
9 Feb 2015, 14:47 PM
#153
Posts: 1484
Puma is perfectly a viable unit for OKW. The range, speed and damage is more than enough for the Puma, just support it with Volks with shreks. Puma is NOT under performing, this unit rewards micro SKILLS and its not a KT with A-move ability.
On the topic, OKW will be far better off with if they have a squad with double shreks than Volks. PGs with double shreks supported by armor (AT gun) just devastate medium armor.
On the topic, OKW will be far better off with if they have a squad with double shreks than Volks. PGs with double shreks supported by armor (AT gun) just devastate medium armor.
| Playercard of WingZero | |||||||||||||||
|
9 Feb 2015, 14:58 PM
#154
Posts: 1702
Lol at people saying the puma, flak HT are underperforming.
9 Feb 2015, 15:18 PM
#155
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
I'd like to see the playercards of those who are saying these units are underperforming. Whenever I get a puma in a 1on1 it reaches vet 5. For being AT it does incredibly well against infantry.
Flak halftrack means for your opponent instant retreat or wipe. It wipes even full health squads on retreat.
Flak halftrack means for your opponent instant retreat or wipe. It wipes even full health squads on retreat.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
9 Feb 2015, 19:30 PM
#156
Posts: 403
Lol at people saying the puma, flak HT are underperforming.
lol whats next? T-34/76 OP?
Volks just need to be less resilient as they level up.
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
9 Feb 2015, 21:52 PM
#157
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Just because you don't have a clue or skill how to use a unit it doesn't mean its under performing.
Stop creating problems where there is none. I play 1v1 and 2v2 only and I can see how in large team games Puma would be neglected due to increase rate of tech but this shouldn't compromise the balance of more relevant game modes.
Edit:
Also I like how you assumed I play against bad players because I don't know why. I guess that's what you do when you run out of counter arguments.
I play against players that are so bad they would flood you with Shermans and T-34 when you would try to stall a game waiting for Panther.
I'm not saying I go Puma every game but when I do I get my moneys worth.
Last time I checked I was around 1000 elo 2v2 as OKW. I haven't played for a few weeks now as I'm waiting for new patch but since meta has been stale for almost 3 months I don't think it matters.
Nobody has ever said the Puma was under preforming, once again you are resorting to straw man tactics in order to try and make me look like an idiot.
And no, I wouldn't get raped by Sherman and T-34 spam because of things like: Shreks, Pak43, Jadgpanzer, ect. You continue to ignore my point that the reason the Puma is underused and not a good argument for removing shreks from volks is that not everyone starts with Mechanized as their first HQ, and the time it would come out is around the same time your getting your second truck. Getting a schwer up early is a game ender, a Puma is not.
9 Feb 2015, 22:00 PM
#158
Posts: 226
Are you fucking Retarded?
Ive never! EVER! lost a puma to an m36/m10
Jesus u must be complete trash to not be able to use smoke ( its get out of jail free card)
puma wins a against a jackson and an m10 if u learn how to micro.
Jesus christ man. you've said some dumb shit. But this takes the cake.
You can no longer be taken seriously
This coming from the guy who thinks Ass grens counter M3's Kappa
Also to all the braindead fools who think the Puma is a counter to Medium tanks - get a clue. When have you EVER seen a Puma beat ANY medium tank WITHOUT SHREK SUPPORT?
Puma is only viable in 1v1, anything above and it is far too vulnerable. Even in 1v1's, Jacksons absolutely destroy the puma, and shermans T34 can still more than stand up to an unsupported Puma. I bet all these people saying Puma is OP have never played a game as OKW and have no idea just how easily it dies.
9 Feb 2015, 23:58 PM
#159
Posts: 1484
This coming from the guy who thinks Ass grens counter M3's Kappa
Also to all the braindead fools who think the Puma is a counter to Medium tanks - get a clue. When have you EVER seen a Puma beat ANY medium tank WITHOUT SHREK SUPPORT?
Puma is only viable in 1v1, anything above and it is far too vulnerable. Even in 1v1's, Jacksons absolutely destroy the puma, and shermans T34 can still more than stand up to an unsupported Puma. I bet all these people saying Puma is OP have never played a game as OKW and have no idea just how easily it dies.
Puma can kite Medium armor pretty well by itself as long you keep a distance. I have done on numerous occasions and Fortune has done this as well.
| Playercard of WingZero | |||||||||||||||
|
10 Feb 2015, 01:09 AM
#160
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
This coming from the guy who thinks Ass grens counter M3's Kappa
Also to all the braindead fools who think the Puma is a counter to Medium tanks - get a clue. When have you EVER seen a Puma beat ANY medium tank WITHOUT SHREK SUPPORT?
Puma is only viable in 1v1, anything above and it is far too vulnerable. Even in 1v1's, Jacksons absolutely destroy the puma, and shermans T34 can still more than stand up to an unsupported Puma. I bet all these people saying Puma is OP have never played a game as OKW and have no idea just how easily it dies.
Fite me breh MVGame
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
2 users are browsing this thread:
2 guests
Livestreams
 |
|
|
24 | ||
 |
|
|
863 | ||
|
|
|
|
8 | ||
|
|
|
|
3 | ||
|
|
|
|
2 | ||
 |
|
|
1 | ||
 |
|
|
1 | ||
|
|
|
|
1 |
Ladders Top 10
-
#Steam AliasWL%Streak
- 1.831222.789+37
- 2.34957.860+14
- 3.1109614.644+10
- 4.608220.734+2
- 5.276108.719+27
- 6.306114.729+2
- 7.916405.693-2
- 8.722440.621+4
- 9.261137.656+2
- 10.1041674.607-2
Data provided by
Relic Entertainment
Relic Entertainment
Replay highlight
VS
-
cblanco ★ -
보드카 중대
-
VonManteuffel -
Heartless Jäger
Einhoven Country
Honor it
9
Download
1235