Remove Shreck from Volks

Yeah and the german scout ca…. Oh wait…




Anyway, what do you guys say about reducing volk schreck penetration dramatically at long range, so they have a rough time penetrating mediums at long range? This way screcks would not snipe medium tanks like it's nobodies business but would still be viable early game AT and close range flank support for the jagdpanzer for example.

That's why some people (including me) are talking about PzB AT rifle. If you want to lower Schrecks damage, penetration, and cost to compensate just give them 2 PzBs to counter early game light vehicle. This way a Volks blob will only does some damage to allied medium armor only if they flank them, and they won't melt them in one volley. You don't have to change their vet system either.

That's why some people (including me) are talking about PzB AT rifle. If you want to lower Schrecks damage, penetration, and cost to compensate just give them 2 PzBs to counter early game light vehicle. This way a Volks blob will only does some damage to allied medium armor only if they flank them, and they won't melt them in one volley. You don't have to change their vet system either.

But that wouldn't scale at all into late game. A schreck with good close range penetration would still be viable as a flank protector against mediums and heavies in late game...

But that wouldn't scale at all into late game. A schreck with good close range penetration would still be viable as a flank protector against mediums and heavies in late game...

I think if they don't have that much late game AT wouldn't heart, provided that Rakketen is buffed a little. With high penetration at close range, blobbers would still charge you with 6-7 squads.

With high penetration at close range, blobbers would still charge you with 6-7 squads.

I wasn't aware this was a problem. I thought the problem with blobs was they were so effective at long range and it made you just a-move towards the enemy and win every engagement. Having to close in increases micro and the risk of being subjected to MG fire, mines, HE-rounds etc. But then again, i might have mistaken where the problem lies.

Changes:
- Reduce damage and decrease reload time to keep DPS the same (make it, basically, zook with higher penetration and higher cost)
- Slightly reduce long range accuracy
- Remove any AoE damage from schrek and zook (make it downgrade in terms of AI)

Result:
- No more losing tanks to a single volley from schrekblob
- No more lucky squad wipes
- Schrek performance against light vehicles is the same

Dies means "Is damaged by" the 50. call actually does not insignificant damage to it and combined with the Puma's low health just makes it lackluster overall.

~10% of .50 cal at point blank range will penetrate.
~4% at max range and by anything else.

And 400hp is not low, its 3 tank shots, 2 jagdtiger shots, 2 KT/jackson shots, 5 zookas, 10 ptrs shots. That is not low at all.
200 is.

Puma is anything but a luckluster, in fact puma is as effective as the player that controls it, if you are good, puma will be IMBA, if you suck, so will puma. Its most reliable AT platform below medium armor in game, which is significantly cheaper then mediums and can kill mediums, struggles only against IS-2.

You can't have a better unit in early game for AT purpose and its coax MG is pretty much as strong as single gren LMG, which is significant for AT vehicle.

I wasn't aware this was a problem. I thought the problem with blobs was they were so effective at long range and it made you just a-move towards the enemy and win every engagement. Having to close in increases micro and the risk of being subjected to MG fire, mines, HE-rounds etc. But then again, i might have mistaken where the problem lies.

Considering the flaws in the current suppression mechanics, it's not gonna be that hard to overwhelm MGs. Your statement is true though, it's riskier that way. But still, it's not gonna fully solve the problem, specially with higher vets, they simply don't die. IMO tweaking them in a way that they become better AI and only have light AT capabilities would be better. Just my opinion, might be wrong.

Maybe my games are just unlucky but the thought of going from volks to sturms with schrecks would go from a unit with a schreck that doesn't die to a unit with a schreck that dies too often.

That's pretty much what would happen, the goal here is precisely to remove the viability of versatile vet5 schreckblob of doom. Moving Schrecks to Sturmpios would mean Schreck would be used as a more defensive weapon, much less blobable, and it would fix the vet5 Volks that are seen EVERY. GODDAMN. GAME. EVER.

Even without Schrecks OKW has very decent AT in literally every tier. Dafuq OKW of all factions needs strongest, most versatile lategame infantry AT for? Because the Panther struggles against t34?

No; people usually say they need Schrecks to cope with the light vehicle stage of the game. And I agree on that point. But interesting how this early game necessity becomes extremely convenient in the late game, providing excellent source of veterancy and virtually shutting down all possibility of Allied armour flanking maneuvers.

A well-positioned Schrecked Sturmpio will chase vehicles away just fine.

That's pretty much what would happen, the goal here is precisely to remove the viability of versatile vet5 schreckblob of doom. Moving Schrecks to Sturmpios would mean Schreck would be used as a more defensive weapon, much less blobable, and it would fix the vet5 Volks that are seen EVERY. GODDAMN. GAME. EVER.

Even without Schrecks OKW has very decent AT in literally every tier. Dafuq OKW of all factions needs strongest, most versatile lategame infantry AT for? Because the Panther struggles against t34?

No; people usually say they need Schrecks to cope with the light vehicle stage of the game. And I agree on that point. But interesting how this early game necessity becomes extremely convenient in the late game, providing excellent source of veterancy and virtually shutting down all possibility of Allied armour flanking maneuvers.

A well-positioned Schrecked Sturmpio will chase vehicles away just fine.

Shrek Sturmpios would be the best choice Relic could do fix the damn problem (I know they wont do squat about this). The problem with OKW is that a FIVE man squad that can reach vet 5 can take allot of punishment before they are wiped out. On top of this, the FIVE man squad have shreks to deter any Allied armor (USF for sure) from mid game to late game. Why not make Sturmpios = to PGs? Who gives a damn if this makes the unit Cntrl + C? I would rather have a fair and balanced game than keeping cosmetics.

Maybe sturmpios should get mp40s and a fifth model with vet along with double shrek upgrade

Maybe sturmpios should get mp40s and a fifth model with vet along with double shrek upgrade

Why should relic invest time and effort in those changes if they aren't needed?

They should have shrecks BECAUSE they only have 4 men. Giving them MP40s is unnecessary (their 2 StGs won't deal serious damage to inf).

That's pretty much what would happen, the goal here is precisely to remove the viability of versatile vet5 schreckblob of doom. Moving Schrecks to Sturmpios would mean Schreck would be used as a more defensive weapon, much less blobable, and it would fix the vet5 Volks that are seen EVERY. GODDAMN. GAME. EVER.

Even without Schrecks OKW has very decent AT in literally every tier. Dafuq OKW of all factions needs strongest, most versatile lategame infantry AT for? Because the Panther struggles against t34?

No; people usually say they need Schrecks to cope with the light vehicle stage of the game. And I agree on that point. But interesting how this early game necessity becomes extremely convenient in the late game, providing excellent source of veterancy and virtually shutting down all possibility of Allied armour flanking maneuvers.

A well-positioned Schrecked Sturmpio will chase vehicles away just fine.

IF sturms had the stats of pgs I wouldnt have an issue wit this but they are too easily killed. Instead of a uni that wont die and a unit that will die how about a middle ground? I remember at one point some people complained of sturm spam..I never saw how those things die really fast under any concentration of fire.

Also Zooks can be used offensively, they just really suck vs heavies. (also skirts) OKW at in the rakten is an rng enigma due to its love of the ground and doing on the spot geometry aiming. Puma is highly effective when micro'd, and panther is effective but don't expect it in numbers. KT is KT.

As someone who plays all the factions, I don't have a problem with OKW Volks blobs. Sure it is annoying but there are ways to deal with it. With that said removing Panzershrek from Volks would require an overhaul of the faction.

While it is true they have anti tank options in each tier,Losing a single vehicle as OKW is extremely punishing. First off Allies can build Fuel Caches, combine that with the fact that OKW has a resource penalty and they start to pull ahead and will be able to put out more tanks on the field. Especially taken into consideration cheesy Strats that forego teching and involve spamming out KV1/ISU/T34-85's out.

With that said it is very boring gameplay to see the same strat played every game and even more boring to play as OKW and have to spam volks in order to have reliable anti tank options.

Now even though I have been defending Volks thus far, I would like to see panzershreks removed from volks if :

1. Resource Penalty Removed
2. Volks Given MP-40 upgrade and panzerfaust
3. Rakketenwerfer increased in price with a boost in health/faster aim
4. Infantry Support Gun price slightly decreased/Improved vs Buildings
5. Tanks adjusted in performance to be balanced with the increased resource income (Mainly Jag, puma being too strong if you could spam them)
6. Able to build Fuel/Ammo Cache

1. Resource Penalty Removed

Im ok with this, but only as a commander. Like industry. But they will have a huge MP bleed

If usf gets a Pershing commander, but with crews disabled

Puma dies to small arms fire and is total garbage the minute the mid game comes, your just wasting your fuel. Honestly it's been said before and will be said by Relic a million time, you would need to fundamentally change a lot of stuff about OKW to get rid of the shrek crutch.

That's funny because I've destroyed countless numbers of Sherman's and T34 with Pumas.

Now even though I have been defending Volks thus far, I would like to see panzershreks removed from volks if :
- snip-

If Schrecks on Volks are THAT important, that removing them would require such an incredible range of buffs completely going against OKW faction statement, then holy crap, I rest my case. Surely Schrecks on Volks were not meant to have that big of an impact on the game, since the faction was clearly designed with other units in mind.

The game really is unplayable as Allies in 4v4 now. The inevitable Kubel on the fuel and the Vet 5 volks blobs with vetted Obers thrown in for comedy value. The only real counter to it is a demo charge and HOPE they wander over it.

Why not swap the shrek for the PTRS? That would solve this problem in a heartbeat, because the PTRS is fucking garbage.

Depressingly as Soviet I HAVE to choose IS2's or double T34-85's if I want even a shred of a chance late game vs Panthers, KT's, Tigers, Tiger Ace et al. By which point the unkillable Panthers from midgame will be vet 2 or 3 and just laugh at your ZIS'.

There are so many Soviet units that I NEVER see in 4v4's because they're so completely useless, it really is a joke.

Things you hardly ever see:

Penals - flame is nice, satchel is nice. Going to get ripped apart midgame.

Katyusha - Very meh. Sacrificing all important fuel for an anti blob unit that will kill maybe 3 or 4 in the blob if im lucky.

SU-85's - Should see them more often as they're not awful, but the shrek blobs laugh at SU85's and their hilarious speed.

Guards rifles - This almost made it into the 'NEVER see' section because they're so awful no one uses them. The PTRS is a joke. Won't even kill a half track before the half track realises and hits retreat. Scratches the paintwork of a p4, 10 squads will do nothing to a Panther or above. Button USED to be useful before it was nerfed into oblivion. Garbage against infantry. All round terrible unit. This is our AT infantry vs Volk shreks that vet to 5 in no time? Fantastic.

Things you NEVER see:

ML-20 - nothing needed to say really, garbage.

B4 - had like a week where it was used, never see it any more. (Was it nerfed?)

KV1 - Why would anyone build this piece of shit? Absolutely useless. A joke of a tank

KV2 - Possible for potential. Reality is it's useless against the speedy Axis tanks.

M42 - Might scare off a half track. Aint doing shit to a p4, Panther will think it's been hit by a fly.

KV8 - Wouldn't THIS be the perfect tool against the blobs? Oh wait, it was NERFED INTO THE GROUND. It's a 9 command point tank with a signoificant costr behind it this SHOULD be death against infantry, this is literally it's main purpose. Last time I used one it almost lost a 1v1 fight against a double vetted pio squad with a shrek. That's depressing.

T-70 - This has nothing on the luchs. And even if it did, so what? It has around a 2min window if you rush it to deal some damage before the shreks come out, one shrek squad is enough to make this thing whimper for cover.

Partisans - LOL. I swear any axis unit can simply give the partisans a glare and they'll keel over and die whilst THROWING their weapons at the enemy.

ISU - Our one unit that battered blobs and tanks. Funny how the volks blob only became a big problem once the ISU was nerfed. Never see it anymore, slow reload, slow tank means volk blob will annihilate this. Don't remember the last time I saw one is a 4v4. A long time ago.



Even shocks are a bit crap these days, sure they're nice when you can sneak round the back of a weapons team, but it sure isn't getting close to a blob to do any damage before it's obliterated.

It's depressing being a Soviet player.

What about giving sturmpios schrecks and slightly reducing their reinforce cost from 40 to 35 once upgraded?

The game really is unplayable as Allies in 4v4 now. The inevitable Kubel on the fuel and the Vet 5 volks blobs with vetted Obers thrown in for comedy value. The only real counter to it is a demo charge and HOPE they wander over it.

Why not swap the shrek for the PTRS? That would solve this problem in a heartbeat, because the PTRS is fucking garbage.

Depressingly as Soviet I HAVE to choose IS2's or double T34-85's if I want even a shred of a chance late game vs Panthers, KT's, Tigers, Tiger Ace et al. By which point the unkillable Panthers from midgame will be vet 2 or 3 and just laugh at your ZIS'.

There are so many Soviet units that I NEVER see in 4v4's because they're so completely useless, it really is a joke.

Things you hardly ever see:

Penals - flame is nice, satchel is nice. Going to get ripped apart midgame.

Katyusha - Very meh. Sacrificing all important fuel for an anti blob unit that will kill maybe 3 or 4 in the blob if im lucky.

SU-85's - Should see them more often as they're not awful, but the shrek blobs laugh at SU85's and their hilarious speed.

Guards rifles - This almost made it into the 'NEVER see' section because they're so awful no one uses them. The PTRS is a joke. Won't even kill a half track before the half track realises and hits retreat. Scratches the paintwork of a p4, 10 squads will do nothing to a Panther or above. Button USED to be useful before it was nerfed into oblivion. Garbage against infantry. All round terrible unit. This is our AT infantry vs Volk shreks that vet to 5 in no time? Fantastic.

Things you NEVER see:

ML-20 - nothing needed to say really, garbage.

B4 - had like a week where it was used, never see it any more. (Was it nerfed?)

KV1 - Why would anyone build this piece of shit? Absolutely useless. A joke of a tank

KV2 - Possible for potential. Reality is it's useless against the speedy Axis tanks.

M42 - Might scare off a half track. Aint doing shit to a p4, Panther will think it's been hit by a fly.

KV8 - Wouldn't THIS be the perfect tool against the blobs? Oh wait, it was NERFED INTO THE GROUND. It's a 9 command point tank with a signoificant costr behind it this SHOULD be death against infantry, this is literally it's main purpose. Last time I used one it almost lost a 1v1 fight against a double vetted pio squad with a shrek. That's depressing.

T-70 - This has nothing on the luchs. And even if it did, so what? It has around a 2min window if you rush it to deal some damage before the shreks come out, one shrek squad is enough to make this thing whimper for cover.

Partisans - LOL. I swear any axis unit can simply give the partisans a glare and they'll keel over and die whilst THROWING their weapons at the enemy.

ISU - Our one unit that battered blobs and tanks. Funny how the volks blob only became a big problem once the ISU was nerfed. Never see it anymore, slow reload, slow tank means volk blob will annihilate this. Don't remember the last time I saw one is a 4v4. A long time ago.



Even shocks are a bit crap these days, sure they're nice when you can sneak round the back of a weapons team, but it sure isn't getting close to a blob to do any damage before it's obliterated.

It's depressing being a Soviet player.

I agreed with you up the point about the B4.. have you never used one? They are currently the meta for 4v4 as Soviets.. Once it gets vet1 precision strike just make their blob retreat and hit their med-base and GG everything is dead.. its also good at 1 shotting tanks when they are stationary (spot it with a sniper)

What about giving sturmpios schrecks and slightly reducing their reinforce cost from 40 to 35 once upgraded?

IIRC PGs cost 42MP to reinforce and also cost you 320MP. So, Sturms are already pretty cheap.

IF sturms had the stats of pgs I wouldnt have an issue wit this but they are too easily killed. Instead of a uni that wont die and a unit that will die how about a middle ground? I remember at one point some people complained of sturm spam..I never saw how those things die really fast under any concentration of fire.

Sturms have 13% less received accuracy, PGs have 20% less received accuracy.

Sturms get -46% received acccuracy with vet, PGs get -29% rec. acc.

PGs cost you 320MP, Sturms don't (if you don't lose them).

PGs come out later (and proably have to fight against vetted / upgraded troops) whereas Sturms are your starting infantry and can be supported by a Kubel so that they don't take too much damage.

Sturms can die just as easily as PGs. I don't understand how they are "a unit they that WILL die".