The Community and Relic.

It's been over two months and we haven't had so much as a HINT at what is going on, it's pretty painful.

Oh, but we did!

Show Spoiler

^ Yes, it's annoying. Ardennes Assault was a big deal for the developers, I know, but ofc on this forum it's never going to have much of an impact.

And, really, the competitive community doesn't want a great deal - a new balance patch, some maps and commanders. Well, a couple of properly run and supported community contests puts one of those to bed in moments and it's been a loooonnng time since a chunky balance patch so that's due.

Really, whats the problem with the suits telling Cynthia "OK, let slip a few hints about that stuff."

^ Yes, it's annoying. Ardennes Assault was a big deal for the developers, I know, but ofc on this forum it's never going to have much of an impact.

And, really, the competitive community doesn't want a great deal - a new balance patch, some maps and commanders. Well, a couple of properly run and supported community contests puts one of those to bed in moments and it's been a loooonnng time since a chunky balance patch so that's due.

Really, whats the problem with the suits telling Cynthia "OK, let slip a few hints about that stuff."

I believe that most of this board and the staff support you in your view, BeltFed...but sadly, you have to re-read Hans' OP.

"Banging your head against a brick wall" springs to mind...

What you guys on about, we got two streams from relic YO.

After a while, i realised it's pointless to hope for anything. Just play the game, or don't. Someday we will all leave the scene anyway, might even be tomorrow, who knows. Relic will do as they see fit, NDA.

They do not care (strategically) how many people are currently playing this game, they only care how many buy it.

Every company does this, as you need to create income somehow. As long as the game is not heavily monetized on DLC, like Free to Play titles are, the sales are the main source of income. Sadly Relic seems to be putting too much attention on it, to the degree it might be hurtful.

Ardennes Assault was labeled as massively successful by Relic due to the sales. It was initially well received by a lot of the community, but this faded as several underlying problems got visible, yet not fixed. I don't think too many people will today say it was a good expansion, but rather that like CoH2 it has good potential.

With such a behavior they create the problem that they have low retention rates and cannot really create a fanbase that sticks with them. Sure, they get sales, but how many people will buy subsequent games afterwards? Especially in the strategy game market, which has a lot of older or long time players, this deprives them of their audience over time.

Their internal structure seems to be well outdated with how players want to interact with developers today, as well as having a lot of red tape with greatly decreases throughput. And never forget to go to the meeting to schedule the meeting to choose the next meetings topic. #Dilbert

I wonder how creative assembly can do so much marketing then...

Sega probably allocates a lot of money to the Total War franchise as it is such a large one.

If I remember right %60 of their budget for Rome II was on advertisement

I feel the need to clear up a couple points with my 'insider' information.

• There used to be three CM's. Now there is one. She is also the CM for DoWII. She tries her best to get back to everybody but there is only so much to go around.
  
• There is enough new content to keep this game going for at least a year. Notice how the studio has suffered no lay offs? Its because they are actively working on things.
  
• When I signed the NDA a copy was sent to my personal email address. It is real. It is 8 Pages.
  
• Do I have disappointment with the lack of clear communication? Yes. Is it the CM's fault? No. Is it Sega's fault? Maybe.
  
• Who should we talk to about this? We want change! The NDA is signed by Justin D (Relic GM) and myself. I believe he would be a good start.
  

I feel the need to clear up a couple points with my 'insider' information.

• There used to be three CM's. Now there is one. She is also the CM for DoWII. She tries her best to get back to everybody but there is only so much to go around.
  
• There is enough new content to keep this game going for at least a year. Notice how the studio has suffered no lay offs? Its because they are actively working on things.
  
• When I signed the NDA a copy was sent to my personal email address. It is real.
  
• Do I have disappointment with the lack of clear communication? Yes. Is it the CM's fault? No. Is it Sega's fault? Maybe.
  

Point A: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, I'm sorry Napalm, but seriously, CM for DoWII? As if they need one, that game is so dead they had to create a completely new mod for it so people could try and actively compete there. Dafuq are they using resources for that game, I don't even think they have anywhere to communicate really, other than the steam mod page.
Point B: No lay offs, but when your lead balance designer and head community manager leave a little over a year after the game is released, that should tell everybody something's up.
Point C: I totally believe, even though I have a deep connection with said CM , that it is sadly their fault and Segas for the most part, but people like Quin Duffy and Stefan I like To Build No-Sense Commanders Heines add into this as well by forcing their hands(as they are the final people in the decision making process whether people believe this or not).

Modified my post a bit Ivan.

• When I signed the NDA a copy was sent to my personal email address. It is real. It is 8 Pages.
  

Would you say you are excited but can't talk about it?

Would you say you are excited but can't talk about it?

I guess so... They do not want Bars pawing round their trashcans for fail fish....

If there is not balance patch, the CM have less work these months.

They have a Master Plan, you just need to wait. They said they are committed to supporting the game for 5 years, which leaves their brand management 3,5 more years to attract all the players. Remember, it's an iterative process so it's normal that it takes some time. They have a roadmap full of features for CoH 2. It's so full that sometimes they have to release unfinished features, but remember: they still have 3.5 years to polish ( ) them. You should be excited for what will come next!

As for their facebook page, it's full of witty questions that bring a lot of traffic. They simply can't feature casters and streamers anymore or they will lose their facebook rank, calculated by a complex algorithm based on advanced machine learning. There is a fine balance to achieve that you don't know about, so I understand your frustration.

They have at least four different target audiences. That makes a lot of potential customers and they totally have the resources to satisfy all of them. I am excited by the amount of players that will join us in the future! And besides, CoH 2 is already doing better than vCoH so I don't know what your are all complaining about.

Show Spoiler

I realy appreciate your post!
+1

It does hurt to know a LOT and wanting to share it with players, but being chained down by NDA and higher ups.

Didn't Noun say he would leave Relic for this exact reason if things didn't change?

Well, Noun is not employed at Relic anymore...

If there is not balance patch, the CM have less work these months.

They've already stated that the next patch will be a bug-patch (which isn't necessarily a bad thing imho - bugs might be to spread out individual soldiers, who knows).

They've already stated that the next patch will be a bug-patch (which isn't necessarily a bad thing imho - bugs might be to spread out individual soldiers, who knows).

Soldier spacing isn't a bug, and before he left Peter said there was no intention to change spacing.

Apparently 6 men morphing themselves together in a wide-open field is fully intentional

It feels hopeless because game has deep design flaws and relic have never promised they will go back and fix them. PQ hinted that he wanted to do it but with him now gone that indication seems more like wishful thinking than actual fact. Game also lacks robust competative supporting features like a proper ladder system but relic doesnt seem to be interested in things that can't be sold with a pricetag.

This all stems from SEGA I am willing to bet. This "Brand Manager" guy seems to tie everyones hands up and kicks them off a bridge. I still talk to Bobby, I think not only was he amazing at his job because he A played the game, but B understood and knew how to handle trolls. But I think with THQ going tits up it gave him more freedom to YOLO his way to what he wanted to do for the community and with it. Now its all draconian NDA's that are not helping anyone and guess what people are leaving because of it.

Coming from the pre golden age of COH2s launch before Bobby lost his job we had incredible communication with Relic. Now... we have ...? I don't blame Cynthia, I blame SEGA and its assanine handling of this franchise. In addition to mistakes made by Relic.

This all stems from SEGA I am willing to bet. This "Brand Manager" guy seems to tie everyones hands up and kicks them off a bridge. I still talk to Bobby, I think not only was he amazing at his job because he A played the game, but B understood and knew how to handle trolls. But I think with THQ going tits up it gave him more freedom to YOLO his way to what he wanted to do for the community and with it. Now its all draconian NDA's that are not helping anyone and guess what people are leaving because of it.

Coming from the pre golden age of COH2s launch before Bobby lost his job we had incredible communication with Relic. Now... we have ...? I don't blame Cynthia, I blame SEGA and its assanine handling of this franchise. In addition to mistakes made by Relic.

+1
Sega should be the prime suspect of this. I don't know what we as a community can do to talk to the men in the suits but it needs to happen. Company of Heroes is too cool of a franchise and filled with die hard fans to treat them like bags of money they don't know whats good for them. Is it so hard to rewrite an NDA or allow for some slips? Hell even just hiring on more community managers would be helpful.

In corporate world all strategic decisions are made by guys with an expensive suit and carpark space reserved for their Porche, in front of HQ building. They tell people with less expensive suits what to do and how to do it, and so on.
When spreadsheets start having this color at the bottom they start shaking up staff and bringing in new blood to shake things up. If that doesn't work then its time to start cutting down expenses (staff) and squeeze as much money out of product before its insolvent.

Guy with the Porche doesn't give a flying fuck about your problems as long as the number at the bottom of his monthly accounts report is withing acceptable range.

Video gamers are expendable customers since they are prime target market only for few short years.

You and me will leave, some kid will buy Relic/Sega game next week/year and won't have any clue how 'bad' last game was.
It's cheaper for Sega to advertise next game heavily than spend money trying to fix game with problems.

Sega is big corporation not some small developer who actually cares about their product/reputation