Some balance suggestions

I've been looking at 1v1 and 2v2 mostly, so here's my thoughts on a few changes that could help out with the following issues:

1. Call-ins too good
2. Ostheer tech too expensive to be worth it and teching relatively cheap for the WFA factions.
3. Sov v. Okw and Ost v. Usf quite boring metagame.

- First of all, fix the squad AI, in many a 2v2 I've played the winner was decided by the side which simply got the luckiest by not getting their squads gibbed by pretty much any artillery or late game tank. The best would be a toggle to have your squad stick to cover or not.

General changes:
- reduce the range more of abilities like grenades, smoke grenades or rifle grenades while suppressed. This should be both a buff to the ost MG42 but should also reduce the stupid situations where a grenadier squad just takes an MG out from the front with a rifle grenade.
- nerf the IS2 and tiger splash damage, remove tiger stun chance.
- have late game tank call-ins require either T3 or 4 to be built for soviets or T4 escalated for ostheer.
- nerf the get-out-of-jail-free abilities like blitz or smoke. Have them be offensive rather than defensive tools.

OKW:

These might seem like a lot of nerfs but a lot of okw mechanics and units were simply broken. In return many strategies that exploited the okw design have been weakened (such as nerfs to the clowncar, shocks, 120mm mortar, sniper, IS2, etc.).

- remove vet4&5, it adds no depth and it only makes volks and okw itself stupidly powerful in the late game.
- buff raketenwerfer and infantry howitzer damage.
- nerf walking stuka. This thing is fucking ridiculous, it kills anything it touches within its radius.
- nerf KT armor and AoE. It's almost always means a free win if you can get it in a 1v1. And why the fuck can a tank like this get blitzkrieg?
- nerf obers dps.
- nerf T4 flak building range and penetration.
- buff flakHT survivability vs ATGs so it doesn't get 2-shotted (would balance out a smoke nerf) but have it suppress less
- make teching more manpower expensive (something like 100MP per truck extra or no free ones)

Soviets:

What I really like about soviets is they can play a ton of different ways: con spam into T3, T2 with maxims & shocks, T1 with guards or even stuff with partisans. It would be great to see all styles as viable as the other.

- nerf shock troops dps
- remove sniper sprint
- flamethrowers can only shoot out of a decelerating or stationary scout car. Flamer clown car squad wipes always felt so gimmicky and this should also alleviate a lot of the problems okw seem to be complaining about in 1v1.
- increase su85 penetration. Always seemed stupid how completely outclassed the su85 is compared to the similarly priced jagdp.4
- decrease t34/76 fuel cost slightly.
- nerf mines. Have them work more like coh1 mines.
- remove 120mm mortar precision strike.
- buff su76 health and gun

Ostheer:

Ost obviously needed a buff, so making T3 a bit better seems ike a good thing. Despite the lack of power of the faction itself, I always thought vetted LMG grens were too good, and with a nerf to shocks and snipers I think they should be brought back in line with other core infantry.

- nerf LMG42 dps.
- stug stubby requires T3 researched to be called in. Decrease AoE but increase health
- have the field howitzer fire more shells per barrage.
- buff panzergrens survivability.
- buff stug3 health.
- decrease sniper cost (to 300 or so).

USF:

A faction with some cool design, I think all they need is a late game buff and an early game nerf.

- jackson & 57mm ATG penetration buff.
- nerf regular & bulldozer sherman AoE slightly.
- nerf 1919 LMG dps.
- slightly nerf BAR dps.
- make teching a lot more expensive manpower wise and slightly slower.

Generally I agree with pretty all of those points. So yeah, you've got the point. The problem is that those problems haven't been touched by Relic for so long it just got boring to read the same over and over again in the forums...

You should try and play a bit more, A good amount of these changes are L2P, for example, nerfing shock troop dps, and completely getting rid of vet 4 & 5 for okw. Coupled with the other nerfs you just slung out the faction would probably end up being unplayable. Su85 pen buff. Y'all are obsessed with any TD regardless of price being able to singlehandedly take on anything from the front quickly and without competition regardless of enemy tank price.

[...]

Soviets:


- flamethrowers can only shoot out of a decelerating or stationary scout car. Flamer clown car squad wipes always felt so gimmicky and this should also alleviate a lot of the problems okw seem to be complaining about in 1v1.

[...]

But this is how soviets fought their way to victory on the eastern front!

Why do u want to nurf Wehr Lmgs?

and by how much?

id add to increase volk price to 270 and increase thier reinforce cost to 25

They are currently more spammable than cons

Soviets:

- flamethrowers can only shoot out of a decelerating or stationary scout car. Flamer clown car squad wipes always felt so gimmicky and this should also alleviate a lot of the problems okw seem to be complaining about in 1v1.

Probably only works if stationary. It probably won't work if it's a decelerating scout car. Once you hit stop it starts decelerating so you can just hit stop next to the squad and continue driving when the burst is complete.

Some questionable changes, put a reasoning behind them as it doesn't look like anything more then random nerfs/buffs for no deeper reason then changing stuff.

OKW:

- remove vet4&5, it adds no depth and it only makes volks and okw itself stupidly powerful in the late game.
- buff raketenwerfer and infantry howitzer damage.
- nerf KT armor and AoE. It's almost always means a free win if you can get it in a 1v1. And why the fuck can a tank like this get blitzkrieg?
- nerf obers dps.
- buff flakHT survivability vs ATGs so it doesn't get 2-shotted (would balance out a smoke nerf) but have it suppress less
- make teching more manpower expensive (something like 100MP per truck extra or no free ones)


Soviets:

- remove sniper sprint
- decrease t34/76 fuel cost slightly.
- nerf mines. Have them work more like coh1 mines.
- buff su76 health and gun

Ostheer:

- have the field howitzer fire more shells per barrage.
- buff stug3 health.
- decrease sniper cost (to 300 or so).

USF:

- jackson & 57mm ATG penetration buff.
- nerf regular & bulldozer sherman AoE slightly.

Fixed it for ya

OkW fixed, Soviets fixed. GooD!
Imo wehrs early game needs something more to be viable. Same goes for USF lategame.
Overall good changes that would make the game playable again.

anything for getting rid of vet 4 and 5

anything for getting rid of vet 4 and 5

Or make the vet 5 scale equally to allied vet 3

Or just make it less active bonuses and more passive bonuses, like faster reinforcing or something.

Wise suggestions. I'd be glad if relic implements some of these changes.

i disagree with many suggestions listed here

i disagree with many suggestions listed here

Yup.

Why do u want to nurf Wehr Lmgs?

and by how much?

id add to increase volk price to 270 and increase thier reinforce cost to 25

They are currently more spammable than cons

Nerf wehr Lmgs like everyone else's lmgs because currently once gren spam gets rolling these units can simply A move towards you and out dps a large amount of allies units even in cover. M1919s have a similar problem.

Maybe all lmgs should get nerfed to DP level, then no one would complain

USF:

A faction with some cool design, I think all they need is a late game buff and an early game nerf.

- jackson & 57mm ATG penetration buff.
- nerf regular & bulldozer sherman AoE slightly.
- nerf 1919 LMG dps.
- slightly nerf BAR dps.
- make teching a lot more expensive manpower wise and slightly slower.

Only real major thing I think you missed was how awful Captain tech is, Making the Lieutenant tech a little more expensive is fine, but the captain should stay where he is at, and all the units in this tier need some help.

First of all, theres almost no chance of removing features and abilities unless you also plan on replacing it with something and even, theres little to non chance for that to be done. Be real.

- nerf the IS2 and tiger splash damage, remove tiger stun chance.
- nerf the get-out-of-jail-free abilities like blitz or smoke. Have them be offensive rather than defensive tools.

-IS2 also has stun chance. I fail to see why only 1 should be nerf.
-Blitz could be tone down, the maximum speed modifer of 1.5 to 1.25 or even less. Smoke can always be negated by attack ground.

OKW:
- remove vet4&5, it adds no depth and it only makes volks and okw itself stupidly powerful in the late game.
- nerf walking stuka. This thing is fucking ridiculous, it kills anything it touches within its radius.
- nerf obers dps.
- nerf T4 flak building range and penetration.
- buff flakHT survivability vs ATGs so it doesn't get 2-shotted (would balance out a smoke nerf) but have it suppress less
- make teching more manpower expensive (something like 100MP per truck extra or no free ones)

-You can't remove vet4&5 but you can make it more in line with vet3 of other factions AND OR make it more utility oriented rather than directly combat oriented.
-Rather than offensive nerfs, i think that survivability nerfs are more in line.
-Regarding range, it needs its overlay to be updated. Range is fine, pen is not.
-FlakHT is fine. Except for its bugs.
-Make trucks 100mp and reduce tech cost by 50mp. Now every truck represents a risk if someone use it for push/crush.

Soviets:
- nerf shock troops dps
- flamethrowers can only shoot out of a decelerating or stationary scout car. Flamer clown car squad wipes always felt so gimmicky and this should also alleviate a lot of the problems okw seem to be complaining about in 1v1.
- decrease t34/76 fuel cost slightly.
- nerf mines. Have them work more like coh1 mines.
- remove 120mm mortar precision strike.

-Shocks only do damage at "spear" range (used to be swords). Para thompsons have higher damage with better profile damage.
-Flame clowncar wipes are due to how flame mechanics work. They don't care about retreat modifiers.
-How much? Price is fine, maybe undone that bugfix with its RoF.
-Squad wipes are more due to bunch up of units. BTW aren't both SU and OKW mines equal ?
-And replace it with what?

Ostheer:
- nerf LMG42 dps.
- stug stubby requires T3 researched to be called in. Decrease AoE but increase health
- buff panzergrens survivability.
- buff stug3 health.

-Gren with LMG dps is fine. Other WFA units have WAY more damage and should be brought in line with them.
-If grouping is "fixed" i don't see too much problems with Stug-E.
-I advocate for a split of veterancy buffs from vet2 into vet1.
-Stug-G doesn't need a survivability buff rather a tweak of it's profile to be the AT option of T3

Note: T4 still seems "impossible" to get and i'm surprised i haven't seen the Panzerwerfer mentioned.

USF:
- nerf regular & bulldozer sherman AoE slightly.
- slightly nerf BAR dps.
- make teching a lot more expensive manpower wise and slightly slower.


-How much worst the bulldozer can be if you nerf it
-Bar DPS increase is almost negible for Rifles if you consider the cost of them.
-I'm not sure about this, since this will further limit teching choices early on.

Maybe all lmgs should get nerfed to DP level, then no one would complain

What if i told you that the DP upgrade has more DPS than the Gren upgrade

What if i told you that the DP upgrade has more DPS than the Gren upgrade

It also takes away 2 normal rifles, doesn't snipe models half as good and costs more.
One would expect it to have at least something over LMG42.