Maps are completely unbalanced

Hello guys!

For me, it seems like that the game is close to being balanced. There are some issues that still needs to be fixed, but its a decent game atm. But some of the maps are horribly imbalanced.

For example, lets consider two equally skilled players. The winrate should be 50%-50%, but depending on the side of the map, it can be totally different. In my experience, it goes like this:

- Semoskiy Summer: 70-80% for bottom, 20-30% for top.
- Semoskiy Winter: 60-70% for bottom, 30-40% for top.
- Kholodny Ferma: 60-70% for right, 30-40% for left.
- Road to Kharkov: 60-70% for top, 30-40% fot bottom.

Crossing and Minsk seems to be balanced, but other than that...if i play on the maps above and get a wrong spawn, it can be very difficult even vs a weaker opponent, and from the better side i could even beat guys who are clearly better than me, just by abusing the map (like the cutoff on semoskiy).

I've read in the Romeo's balance issue tracker that people complained about the balance of the maps when the fixed spawn locations were applied. What was the reaction? They did not fixed the maps, they just removed the fixed spawning....Practically they admitted that the maps are unbalanced, but they refused to do anything about it. (I understand that it was easier to modify 1 line of code and re-introduce random spawns again, instead of thinking about a few changes on these maps.)

I think if we get enough statistics about exact winrates on these maps from different sides, when they face exact numbers, they will consider fixing this issue, with hurts the balance a ton more than for example Obers doing a bit too much damage (nerfing obers would alter the winrates with like 3%, but these map balance issues cause 20-40% winrate changes...).

What do you guys think? What's your experienced winrate in maps from different sides?

Honestly I don't find those maps being too unbalanced, it could be that you have simply a special preference for each map.
I for example like the left spawn more on Kholodny Ferma.

I think other maps should be rather rebalanced, such as Hürtgen Forest or Faymonville Approach. It sucks to be the top player on both maps.

I haven't met anyone who likes Hürtgen Forest yet.

I was focusing on 1v1 maps first, but i also think that Hürtgen Forest is terrible

Moscow outskirts is also a lot harder from top than from bottom (that top cutoff on the left...). Vaux farmlands is OK, its just ten times easier with allies than with axis (only 2v2 map where i think cons spam into t34 spam is not only viable, but almost unbeatable because of the size of the map).

"Honestly I don't find those maps being too unbalanced, it could be that you have simply a special preference for each map."

Consider writing down your wins/losses from each sides. I also watch a ton of games from pro players (on live stream or ingame live games), and i can tell you that the difference between the winrates in Semoskiy top are insanely low, compared to bottom.

There were a countless times when i saw a game and i was like "hmm, Siberian/Luvnest/etc plays axis from semo winter top, im curious how he will win from this side, i will learn a lot from this game!" and then, "well, he lost."

I'm going to agree that certain units make certain maps extremely unfair.

For example, I just had a game on Semoisky where the OKW player put his flaktrak on his fuel point, which is right next to his base. Meaning his fuel was basically unharrassable.

Most maps are unbalanced and far too often a map is the deciding factor in the victory rather than level of play.

I'm going to agree that certain units make certain maps extremely unfair.

For example, I just had a game on Semoisky where the OKW player put his flaktrak on his fuel point, which is right next to his base. Meaning his fuel was basically unharrassable.

This is an issue with OKW, not map balance.

Most maps are unbalanced and far too often a map is the deciding factor in the victory rather than level of play.

Exactly. Especially on kharkov it makes such a difference if you start as P1 or P2, talking from the Ost point of view.

Those generic maps are so bad. Like Kharkov, this map is so bad idk why is still in the map pool. its not good for 1v1 neither for 2v2.

And we have so many really good community maps.

Consider writing down your wins/losses from each sides. I also watch a ton of games from pro players (on live stream or ingame live games), and i can tell you that the difference between the winrates in Semoskiy top are insanely low, compared to bottom.

writing your own win/loss down, and adding some random numbers you don't even know is not how you argue mathmatically... Like seriously, that's all opinion and not facts. Stop acting like your win/loss ratioes are facts! Also, just your own experience is nothing compared to 1000s of other players playing who might have a total different view on some of the maps you refer to in post#1. plox stop

Maps are unballanced though, but this way of presenting it is just wrong. Look at Jesulins map balance report where he strikes down on specific places on the map and using these facts to argue about how the maps are terrible balance wise. He doesn't just add random numbers -.-'

Some of them are poorly designed as well.

As much as I enjoy Langreskya it always turns into a slug fest because of how close the North and South VPs are to the bases.

And then maps like semoskiy where the fuel can be harrassed but will be guaranteed income for either player the whole game.

Not that these are unfun, but they inevitably play out the same way.

OPs thesis is right, just the argumentation is garbage.

This thread made me remind pripyat summer, where if you started at north, it was already 80% you'll win. Fun times.

OPs thesis is right, just the argumentation is garbage.

This thread made me remind pripyat summer, where if you started at north, it was already 80% you'll win. Fun times.

Exactly.

Unless the map is 100% symetrical, you can't expect a "perfect" balanced map. Taking as example Kharkov, that's a map on which one side has an easier cutoff vs a bit closer to the vp aproach.

I still don't understand why they don't just rotate in community maps when so many are much more intelligently designed. They also seem to make far better use of the lighting engine for some reason.

Exactly.

Unless the map is 100% symetrical, you can't expect a "perfect" balanced map. Taking as example Kharkov, that's a map on which one side has an easier cutoff vs a bit closer to the vp aproach.

I don't see the problem with this?

You can have symetrical maps that are different to the eye (talking about models used for obstacles/cover/houses etc), so you don't just build half of map and mirror the other half.

If CoH2 wants to become esports it needs to make it's maps more symmetrical. As Satanic as that may sound to the CoH community I'd rather have boring symmetrical maps that are fair than asymmetrical maps with an obvious advantage to one starting position.

They dont have to be 100% symmetrical. Instead a tree, u can put down a bush etc. They should check out the maps of Starcraft 1-2, u can see a ton of very good examples. And who cares even if its completely symmetrical? We want balanced, full-competitive maps, not "good looking" ones.

Most maps are unbalanced and far too often a map is the deciding factor in the victory rather than level of play.

Kharkov north being a perfect example of this.

Kharkov north being a perfect example of this.

Or Moscow outskirts north....that map is just unplayable. We just beat two rank ~30guys (we are at 161), and not just by a little, they had no chance whatsoever.

I think some maps should be completely removed from the game mainly due to being total crap

Agree with OP, on certain maps a certain spawn will let me know that I will be able to win if the player is just as good as me or even better, it doesn't matter, you can win due to exploiting the map

Is there a lists of maps favouring one side over another?

Also, factions favoured?

A lot of the time we feel like we're up shit creek because of certain maps but I'd like to know how much of it is just us sucking and how much is reflected by the broader community.