soviet vs okw matchup

The sequel to my ostheer vs usf thread, and once again balanced around 1v1 and 2v2.


The soviets have some issue when fighting against okw, conscripts are even more useless in the mid/late game vs okw because of obers and vet 5 volks or the plethora of okw elite infantry. I would suggest buffing their vet 2/3 abilites and giving vet combat bonuses to like healing out of combat. Another suggestion would also be giving them a weapon upgrade aswell, which would also give the soviets a munitions sink.

In t1 soviet snipers need to be one man and penals need a buff of some sort, there is currently no reason to really chose them over conscripts. Cons have more versatility (at nades) than penals which only have flame throwers and satchels.Making them long range infantry with a price increase could be an option or buffing their short range power with an increase to distinguish them from cons better.

soviet t2 is in a pretty good spot imo, apart from the soviet mortar which is under performing I feel. it doesn't have the rof of the german mortar or fire power of the 120mm, it supposedly more accurate, but I dont really see it, in fact it seems the German mortar is more accurate than it.

Soviet t3/4 is suffering alot vs okw because of the shrek volks and the quick and easy access the the puma and the jagpanzer that leads to the call in meta. the t70 doesn't come early enough to make much of a difference against okw because of shreks and pumas which invalidates it and the t34 as well, you cant kite them because the range difference between them is so minuscule, it doesn't matter that they out range them by alittle. the puma will easily chase them off, and using a jagpanzer is much easier because it'll be always supported by shreks. The su76 has been worthless since the beta, all it needs is a buff to its ai and maybe its arty strike and the su85 needs to have better maneuverability and path finding ( all tanks do)

Soviet teching along with ostheer needs a general redone its not nearly as efficient and rewarding as the okw and usf teching. Another issue soviets have is the over reliance on call ins because of their inefficient teching and awful tier units. A fix would be ofcourse buffing the stock units, but also reverting call ins back to the way they were in beta, example= unlock t34/85 at 9 cp and you build said tank in soviet t3, the same with the is2 and the isu is build in t4.

Guards need a buff they were pretty good pre lmg nerf( which wasn't really a nerf) the only unit that was really affected it seems were guards. I am tired of buying dps for 72 munitions (why are they 75 munitions?????!?!?!) and losing a dp in their first engagement. Not only that their ai is really lack luster, they are not very elite being guards. They need a general combat buff and make the dps drop less often and make the an upgrade along with the dp.

good post red bear

I'd just like to add that while Soviet T2 is generally in a good spot a Walking Stuka from the OKW player tends to completely shut it down.

Guards's PTRS and DPs should have their dps doubled and reduce to one, they are dropping weapons every single engagement.

Call-in should be fixed, but what the soviet T3, T4 offering is plain bad, T-34/76 should be swaped by T-34/85 and the SU-85 needs to be swapped by a more powerful TD like SU-100 which acted like glorified jadgpanzer IV. The entire soviet weaponry stays at 1943 level vs. late 1944 German armies. T3 T4 cost reduction, or some sort of reward after buiding it (DP upgrade for cons?), soviet rely heavily on call-in meta because their stock tanks are not scale at all.

all vCOH2 armies veterancy needs rework, give them survibility at level one, the flare trip wire and medpack should be a tier reward, and the tank capturing point ability compare to blitzkrieg is a joke, give them critical repair sounds resonable for allied tanks are easier to maintain.

So far, only the OKW makes me very satisfy of playing, despite lacking one medium tank(general purpose tank), there's wide range of unit choice at your disposal, and the commanders are just an enhancement, this is more like vCOH faction. I really want the soviet should have same kind of weapon of choice... I love play allied but COH2 allied are forced to blob/make hard choices between some crucial units.

Yes, that is an excellent point i failed to being up. The stuka is just op it needs a nerf to its accuracy and damage. A unit should not invalidate tiers like that its ridiculous.

I like to use T2/T4 and commander with howitzer against OKW. Pair of SU-85 seems to be decent against Panther and Katyusha helps against these blobs.
Indirect fire is an OKW weakness and you should exploit it. I get mortar almost every game.
T1 works pretty good as well but its more risky as you are exposed to early flack halftruck or Luchs.

I like to use T2/T4 and commander with howitzer against OKW. Pair of SU-85 seems to be decent against Panther and Katyusha helps against these blobs.
Indirect fire is an OKW weakness and you should exploit it. I get mortar almost every game.
T1 works pretty good as well but its more risky as you are exposed to early flack halftruck or Luchs.

This is what I am trying to do as well. I think its a good strat, the only problem I got is screening for the SUs.

The clown car is a huge problem for okw and just charges kubel
conscripts destroy volks without high vet
penals are even better than conscripts

later the table turns and übers kill everything but shocks and "hit the dirt" usa soldiers
If you buff SU late game OKW needs an eraly game buff


for the units in t3/4

T34 is a good tank just push the schrek squads from your opponent (works agaisnt me all the time )
Su85 a strong unit if supported like the jagt4 (with vet it scares of panther and even kingtiger unless flanked)
Katyusha is a squad wipe machine (better range than panzerwerfer but worse area of effect)
Su76 sucks just like the stug and comes even later but at last it has arty

The clown car is a huge problem for okw and just charges kubel
conscripts destroy volks without high vet
penals are even better than conscripts

later the table turns and übers kill everything but shocks and "hit the dirt" usa soldiers
If you buff SU late game OKW needs an eraly game buff


for the units in t3/4

T34 is a good tank just push the schrek squads from your opponent (works agaisnt me all the time )
Su85 a strong unit if supported like the jagt4 (with vet it scares of panther and even kingtiger unless flanked)
Katyusha is a squad wipe machine (better range than panzerwerfer but worse area of effect)
Su76 sucks just like the stug and comes even later but at last it has arty

Really?
I think you only play with OKW man. I play both and all I can say is that the way to kill OKW is by spamming heavy tanks and shocks.

Conscrips are weak, its an investment that will have 0 return in mid/late game.
Shocks are OP but only if you throw smoke to approach to Obersoldaten.

T34 is not a bad tank but volks with shreks will make you suffer even if you kite them.
SU85 (good AT skills) is easily killable by shreks or flanks. Low armor ,reduced mobility and 0 AI skills.
The best joke is that one where you said that Katyusha is a squad wipe machine. In my oppinion, Kat response is way too long. I agree about the area effect which is not good (but if not that would be a wipe machine) but with that response time it's impossible to make a OKW inf blob to retreat. I think kat is not worth to build atm.

As OKW, if the russian/american start blobbing, A Walking Stuka will work great.

Against OKW t1 is better followed by shocks into is-2 and kv-8.Katyusha as arty.And demo charges.Thats my view anyway.
t-34/76 is useless-even more useless than pz4.
Soviet infantry is a massive crutch on shocks,but conspam is good atm.
Guards need a put away PTRS toggle button,which will switch PTRS with mosin nagants.

The clown car is a huge problem for okw and just charges kubel
conscripts destroy volks without high vet
penals are even better than conscripts

I agree strongly with the above statement.

Unless you actually have played OKW, you don't know how big of a deal this is. As someone who had been ranked 14th in OKW 2v2 once upon a time (havent played 2v2 in ages, idk where I am now), this, even if not objectively unbalanced, is the most un-fun thing to play against ever.

With 80% muni income, OKW cannot get enough munis to reliably mine the M3 or get an early shrek. The Kubelwagon needs to always be careful and thus cannot chase the sniper down.

Back when WFA armies were released, everybody was crying about how strong SOV were against OKW. Sure, conscripts died like flies to Sturmpios, but

1. OKW had no counter to maxim spam. Good luck getting a stuka when the enemy sets up 8 maxims at your cutoff
2. OKW had no counters to snipers. No smoke, very expensive artillery piece, expensive Sturmpios feed vet and bleed like crazy
3. OKW had no medium tanks. When you're busy saving fuel for a Stuka, your opponent has gotten a t-34. (Rememeber, this was when OKW had 66% Muni income)
4. Guard Rifle had OP Button. Made any vehicle not a Panther die instantly it saw a guard squad. With this ability, it was literally feasable to 1. button a Luchs 2. walk up behind it with a pio 3. build a mine, or 1. Button a Luchs 2. plant a demo/throw a satchel. Soviet T1 thus had ridiculously good "anti-vehicle"

Since release, several things have been changed that have affected this matchup.

1. OKW still has no hard counter to Maxims, but can soft-counter it through a flak halftrack. The setup/tear down changes makes this vehicle much less susceptible to getting owned by an AT gun.
2. OKW still has no counter to snipers, although Flak halftrack can stop them from roaming about at will. Again, this is a stop-gap measure until Puma, Stuka, etc can be afforded to stop cutoff camp
3. Lack of Medium tank is no longer a terrible penalty due to higher muni income allowing shrek blobbing
4. Guards have been nerfed, while it is still hypothetically possible to satchel a buttoned tank, at least the Luchs can shoot back at the all-so-clearly approaching penal squad.

Concerns 3-4 have been mostly addressed, although 1 and 2 still remain.

These aren't so much balance issues, except that they virtually force Mechanised HQ vs soviets. At best, a 100% useless tier vs a faction is terrible game design. At worst, Due to mines and demo charges, Soviets still hold a significant advantage over OKW due to snipers + doctrinal units.


tl;dr

OKW vs Sov is aboring and unfun matchup for both players due to being bottlenecked into a very limited number of plausible strategies.

Sov:
-You con spam
-Play T1 into double early snipers or clowncars
-Maxim spam

Either you stall into call ins or you keep the aggro through T3 play or indirect fire on T4.

OKW:
-Check enemy base at min 0, min3-5, and at min9-12. Adapt strat accordingly to his tech.
-Flak HT/Stuka (depending map n playstyle)
-Luch
-Obers/Elite infantry

Urban map (infiltration nades), MG34 for that surplus of mp on the early mid game, Pak43, Command P5. Falls are good but will drain you mp, PF are great against snipers but are a muni sink early on.

Flak halftrack absolutely shits on tier1 and shocks. Maxims are just pain to use if your opponent gets teleporting infantry.

Lot of issues are resolved in this matchup once volk schreck blobs get a nerf and raketen gets it's buff it so desperately needs. Leig could use some love too.

OKW vs Sov is aboring and unfun matchup for both players due to being bottlenecked into a very limited number of plausible strategies.

While 1v1 strats are more limited, since you said you play 2v2 i'll have to disagree. Specially if we compare it with OH or USF strats.

Some pretty good points OP!

Against OKW t1 is better followed by shocks

And then comes flak HT at 5th-6th minute and you quit the game, because there is nothing more you can do?
No wonder everything is imbalanced to you if you play retarded BOs like this.

And then comes flak HT at 5th-6th minute and you quit the game, because there is nothing more you can do?
No wonder everything is imbalanced to you if you play retarded BOs like this.

I see often soviet players go T1 & T2. It's a valid strategy and very effective. Especially when you can rely on strong call ins.

But yes that's the counter play. Soviet goes T1, OKW player has to go T2 in a 1vs1 at least, or the game will be lost.

And then comes flak HT at 5th-6th minute and you quit the game, because there is nothing more you can do?
No wonder everything is imbalanced to you if you play retarded BOs like this.

I used it to good effect in 2 vs 2 and 4 vs 4 when i played soviet with cons AT nades and mines for backup.
Admittedly i'm not a regular soviet player so i defer to you on this,but its not as farfetched as u might think.
For those who think its completely impractical jesulin used this vs cruzz in semifinals and won.

Regarding the tanks/tier swapping suggestions - I also feel the game would be much healthier if T34/76 was replaced with T34/85.

The dual T34/85 call-in doctrine ability could then be to get three T34/76s at like 7CPs for 240 fuel or something. That way the call-in provides an alternate playstyle instead of a straight-up upgrade to an inferior stock unit.