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What to do against an initial kubel-push?

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Romeo
22 Jan 2015, 06:10 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2015, 09:44 AMMetalon
WHAT? Does this actually work? :D


It does work, but it's actually very hard to pull off in practice and also might be considered abusive behavior. I've lost a lot of full RE squads trying to do this and have since pretty much given up on the tactic in favor of just trying to kill it with well executed flanks.
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ElSlayer
22 Jan 2015, 06:35 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2015, 00:59 AMJazzhead

Ehhhhhhhhh. It seems like the wc51 just doesn't perform nearly to the level it should for the cost. Plus it requires you to take a pretty terrible doctrine. It would be nice to seem some buffs for that doc but I'm not holding my breath.

Also did you find that it messed with your tempo a lot?

You can exchange it back for resources later.
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Jazzhead
22 Jan 2015, 06:40 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2015, 06:35 AMElSlayer

You can exchange it back for resources later.

1) There's still the opportunity cost of getting it. You're sacrificing almost a whole rifle squad to get it, plus possibly delaying your LT/m20.
2) It can die before you can withdraw it.
3) You only get 75% of the cost refunded.
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ElSlayer
22 Jan 2015, 08:00 AM
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2015, 06:40 AMJazzhead

1) There's still the opportunity cost of getting it. You're sacrificing almost a whole rifle squad to get it, plus possibly delaying your LT/m20.
2) It can die before you can withdraw it.
3) You only get 75% of the cost refunded.

1) Isn't it better than laying face down in the mud, suppressed?
2) This can be consistently avoided through having more practice of controlling it (hate to say it, but it is l2p issue)
3) The rest 25% is compensated from gaining better map control through using its ability to carry squad and mobility in general
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Romeo
22 Jan 2015, 21:16 PM
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You get 217 manpower and 5 fuel for refunding it. Neither of those numbers is 75% of the original price.
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CookiezNcreem
24 Jan 2015, 14:30 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2015, 00:59 AMJazzhead

Ehhhhhhhhh. It seems like the wc51 just doesn't perform nearly to the level it should for the cost. Plus it requires you to take a pretty terrible doctrine. It would be nice to seem some buffs for that doc but I'm not holding my breath.

Also did you find that it messed with your tempo a lot?



I honestly feel that doctrine is there to simply counter an "initial Kubel/truck push if you cant by normal means". and make the guy rage quit before the game drags on so the rest of the useless abilities dont matter.

the Halftrack is OKAY but overpriced,and the Arty is the best the USF has. The recon sweep is cool,not great,and withdraw and refit is....situationally useful and would be better as an HQ ability for all factions.

The Doctrine isnt terrible,its just not good..(?) I love using it in 4v4s against Quad OKW to counter Kubel rush on maps like Steppes.
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SgtBulldog
24 Jan 2015, 22:20 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jan 2015, 03:42 AMJazzhead

I guess you didn't read any of my responses? If you get 1 RE squad into cover before the kuble starts firing (or at least as close as possible), it can force the kuble off or even kill it. A second RE squad will just secure the kill. 1 and even 2 RE squads is pretty cost effective to negate a kuble....


I guess you didn't read mine either because I wrote the same thing...

Anyway, the RE solution is just for US. But I have found that it works the same for the SU with the engies.

Actually, even if you don't get in cover like buildings, you can make it by kiting the kubel, staying behind it. It does require catching it off guard not having set up or approaching outside of the cone. Or else'T' key is recommended.

Disclaimer: I mostly play team games...
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computerheat
24 Jan 2015, 22:39 PM
#28
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If you're Soviet, some early conscript sandbags can be very helpful. Also, you can always use Hit the Dirt if you don't mind picking a commander that you'll probably regret later on!
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ThoseDeafMutes
26 Jan 2015, 12:08 PM
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After getting fucking rolled 4 games in a row (2v2) I'm starting to think that the only solution is to go back in time and turkey slap whichever idiot decided to give mobile suppression platform in T0 to a faction.

Good aggressive kubel play on favorable map = GG.
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GuyFromTheSky
26 Jan 2015, 15:41 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jan 2015, 12:08 PMThoseDeafMutes
After getting fucking rolled 4 games in a row (2v2) I'm starting to think that the only solution is to go back in time and turkey slap whichever idiot decided to give mobile suppression platform in T0 to a faction.

Good aggressive kubel play on favorable map = GG.


It's actually not mobile as the AAHT is mobile. The kubel need to stand still for a second or so to be able to suppress, sort of like a (very short) setup time. Try to use this time to your advantage by moving away from the kubel or into cover.
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ThoseDeafMutes
26 Jan 2015, 22:05 PM
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I can and have defeated kubel pushes, it's just sometimes you're caught out of position at the worst possible time. Or some maps there's red cover everywhere. Or the early game units like sturmpios are on the flanks to flush your fragile cons out of the green cover you're behind while the kubel suppresses the bait squad you sent out to allow the other squad to get into cover. Your reward for this is that the kubel backs off and waits for reinforcements which get there in no time flat to push you again.

If it's a map where there's no green cover, I feel like the kubel has a habit of suppressing me ridiculously fast.

I know it's not OP, it's L2P issue, fucking whatever. But Relic matchmaking paired me up with a combination of superior teams and maps I'm bad at and we got rolled 4 times in a row so I'm angry right now.
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ASneakyFox
7 Feb 2015, 18:27 PM
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move around in twos, but spread out enough that both squads wont get pinned by the same kubelwagen.. When the kublewagen targets one squad let it get suppressed and flank with the other, forcing it to move.

As long as you have something nearby to get side shots on the kublewagen itll force it to move and turn it into a useless asset. You dont even need to destroy it, it'll eventually get out teched and destroyed all on its own.

if youre usf:

other good tactics are to buy the grenade package and use smoke grenades (giving you time to get into heavy cover or a house), going elite infantry doctrine and buying vet 1 riflemen which have at grenades. I've also thrown regular grenades at kublewagens if i start getting suppressed but im close enough to throw a grenade at it. It wont destroy it, but itll force it to fall back for repairs.


if youre soviet

another good tactics is to get a scout car (preferrebly with some infantry riding in it, but not required)
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FaustCostBulletin
12 Feb 2015, 13:59 PM
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Bend over I've found that to be pretty effective. Get a ZiS-3 after that.
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