Ostheer vs usf matchup

Jump back to quoted post19 Jan 2015, 18:23 PMKatitof

So AT nade is for soviets who didn't go T1 against kubel/truck push abusers.
Still an upgrade.

Jump back to quoted post20 Jan 2015, 10:30 AMausterlitz

Kubel doesn't wipe squads and soviet also has cheap early mine.

Jump back to quoted post20 Jan 2015, 11:13 AMAradan

Sturmpios can squads wipe. And how you can place mine in first minute?

In team games are fuel sectors in middle of the map and kubel/mg give you advantage in firs combat.

Ostheer is weaker in 1v1, but in team games is realy good.

Jump back to quoted post19 Jan 2015, 22:19 PMSlate

How I experienced "typical" USF-Ostheer (maybe a bit of satire):

0-5 mins: Grens are getting raped by rifles
5-10 mins: situation gets better for Ostheer (thanks to LMGs and 222/251)
10 mins: Sherman hits the field, if there is no pak/Pzgrens without Schrecks, Ostheer gets killed
10-15 mins: Ostheer losing all mapcontrol, except of some small parts. Rifles are also getting LMGs-> grens are getting raped again
~15 mins: Panzer 4 gets on the field and gets instantly counterd by a Jackson
15-25 mins: Ostheer try to hold some parts of the map and try not to get killed by E8 etc.

If there is no commander with tiger from Ostheer -> USF win

~25 mins: -Tiger hits the field, if USF hasn't prepared ( missing M20 mines, Jacksons, P47), Tiger will rape everything

25- ... "fair" fight starts

Alternative: -Tiger Ace: Ostheer press the "instant-button"

Alternative end 1: Ostheer makes a mistake (losing a gren squad in the earlie game)-> USF win
notices: USF losing sth. is not important.

Alternative end 2: Ostheer has lost to many VPs so the Tiger not even gets on the field

Jump back to quoted post19 Jan 2015, 21:30 PMBryan

@ austerlitz and RMMLz, Yeah I feel ya's on where your coming from, the MG42 starts off lackluster due to a poor traverse speed and then jumps in performance at vet 2. Where for example, the Maxim starts off good and pretty much continues in the same vein. The MG42 with vet is better imo, but the Maxim is better at vet 0.

Personally think the MG42 could be tweaked to be a bit better from the start, but gain a bit less then it currently does with vet.

Alternatively, just make it so suppressed units can't throw nades for all factions. Would help allot and remove a bit of daftness from the game imo (crawl into nade range!)

Pgrens are good for their manpower cost, but will vary in effectiveness depending on the map/situation. I like that design tbh, unlike LMG grens/Obers/LMG paras, they require a bit more thought. Pity the new factions weren't designed with a similar mindset.

Scout car is a bitch to micro, turns like a truck and the acceleration rate is a bit meh for a glass cannon. Fix that and it'll be grand imo. Currently it is usable, but micro intensive and annoying.

I believe Ostheer get a discount on their LMG/Rifle nades as the tech is effectively built into the cost of tier one. But your paying for it in one lump sum effectively in the early game, which delays the t1 units and is a big investment in tech that you require munitions to use, which in the early game for Ostheer, is a bit light on the ground due to less map control and Ostheer requiring munitions for healing etc.

I prefer my original solution then a complete overhaul of the above, as I think incremental changes are easier to implement and judge. You have to consider, if you break it down so Ostheer can tech the LMG/Rifle nade etc individually, then t1 will cost less and Pgrens/scout cars/Pak will come much faster, which will present new balance considerations/challenges.

In regard to normal tech beyond t1, yeah, t4 is too expensive currently, again I like the common suggestion of adjusting the tech costs, so they are similar, but the buildings cost more and the tier tech less, so skipping a tier beyond t1 saves more resources.

But I feel that is another topic as Soviet tech would have to be adjusted at the same time

Jump back to quoted post22 Jan 2015, 18:26 PM__deleted__

Biggest issue with ostheer teching costs is they were put into place before western fronts came out and were intended for the soviet/ostheer match up to increase infantry battles (As stated in their balance notes at the time it went live). Now that OKW and USF are here its a completely different story since both those factions can bring armor on much faster.