Ostheer vs usf matchup

This is a view focus with 2v2 and 1v1 in mind. This is in regards to the fact that ost is in a pretty bad state since the release of wfa, mainly against usf.

Some of the issues I want to point out is that fact riflemen seems to out perform grens at all ranges. I believe this should not be the case, especially in the early game. I think riflemen should get a slight nerf on their long range dps, so grens= long rang and riflemen= short/mid range.

Another issue is riflemen have smoke grenades, giving riflemen the ability to negate mg42's and attack them head on encourages blobbing and is a bad design decision, flanking mg positions was always an important part of coh1/2 and this ruins that dynamic, I suggest replacing the smoke grenade with the at nade and decrease the price of the grande package.

Another issue with this match up is also the arrival of american light vehicles like the m20 and the aa halftrack comes to early for the ostheer, this is made worse further by the fact that ostheer teching is expansive, tellers are 50 munitions, but this delays lmgs for grens (which is what they desperately need to keep up with riflemen) and the pak40 is 340mp ( I think pak40/zis3 is to expansive, at guns should not be the price of elite infantry). Ostheer players are always pressured to have enough infantry from t1 and tech up to t2 fast enough to deal with early american armor. I think an easy solution to this is to make ost tech cheaper and buffing the 222 and/or making the pak40 cheaper.

Another issue ostheer has been having is pgrens, are not very durable for an expensive 340mp 4 man squad, I think they could use some more durability, not the same they had pre-march deployment, but enough where they aren't to squishy.

As I mentioned before teching in general is to expensive for ostheer especially t4 which is nonexistent in 1v1, people just simply save for tigers. The stug also needs something to differentiate it from the p4, everyone always go for a p4/ostwind or skip t3 and go for tigers. The only time you see a stug is if the player is desperate and fuel starved. The stug could use better armor pen or maybe even 60 range, to make it a more attractive option.


In t4 the only unit that has an issue is the panzer werfer which isn't buffed when the katyusha was buffed a few months ago, you rarely see this unit, because its just not as effective as it use to be. If i remember properly the only thing wrong with it in its previous iteration was its cool down was to short, but then relic nerfed in to obilvion for some reason, maybe it was to strong, but it shouldn't have been nerfed as hard as it was.

other issues include the mg42 derping around and not shooting as soon as units enter is arc and inconsistent suppression.

Opinions?

Rifles beat greens at long range due to 5 models and that alone. Once greens reach vet2 it is no longer the case. MG42 does need a buff. I am fine with making rifles weaker if their price is lowered to 240 MP and Thor vet becomes just like everyone else's instead of backwards. Otherwise tough shit they cost more and are the only thing USF can build for the first 5 minutes or more.

Smoke nades are bullshit but they aren't cheap and cost fuel that the USF start with 0 of. If any changes are made I would expect them to be dirt dirt cheap.

Others tech should be cheaper for sure. And I am of the opinion and always have been that T4 should cost the same as T3. Just make the phase costs cheaper and the buildings more expensive.

Werner does suck and could use a buff and Pgrens could use a buff and they Are not the only overpriced elite vanilla infantry that needs to be looked at. Piñatas are crap now as well.

Not sure about the Stug as it can stun. If 60 range then remove TWP and AI as its a TD now shouldn't also kill infantry.

Edit predictI've text caused typos I am to tired to fix sorry

Smoke nades are bullshit but they aren't cheap and cost fuel that the USF start with 0 of. If any changes are made I would expect them to be dirt dirt cheap.

Correction, USF starts with 15 fuel which is also why the LT can hit the field so soon. Off the top of my memory, Ost will have 10 fuel remaining once they built their T1.

Also while cooldown may not be the best for rifles compared to increased accuracy at vet 2, they do shoot faster and do not have any sort of wind down(the bolt animation) so that can be considered a combat buff.

Maybe, if we don't want to bring tech costs of Ost down for the sake of our Soviet friend, why not push back the WFA tech(yes that means OKW as well with their cheap tech) further because USF, to get the LT is pretty cheap at 50 fuel, but only needing to obtain 35 considering their starting fuel and the amount of map control they have versus Ostheer.

while the captain takes forever, especially when your early game options are worst infantry squad in the game and solid but basic squad. pushing back OKW tech and lefttenant tech for USF would help with that.

Been saying all these things for ages.
But u forgot the silly 'armored ' car 221.

Main thing eventually is -
MP tech disparity.You are desperately spending vital MP trying to get to pak while rifles bully you.While that mp is useless,he meanwhile gets free units..its too much.
And ofcourse popcornsprayer42 is useless.

But after 3 months of waiting relic more or less confirmed balance patch is still far away,so whats the point?Its obvious they view ost as balanced.Always have.Only wake up when they need to nerf an wehr unit.Grenadier veterancy and lmg should be next.That will fix wehrmacht problems.

as soon as the tigers hit the field, USF can do nothing but cry

too many games i have held the lead but lost because of the sole reason that ostheer do not need to tech, they can survive on zero fuel units, not build any base buildings, and then SUDDENTLY OH WOW ONE OF THE BEST TANKS IN THE GAME.

so the focus becomes trying to win the game before the 15 minute mark passes


US needs either a lategame buff and a early game nerf, not just a early game nerf, because then they'll lose every game ever

as soon as the tigers hit the field, USF can do nothing but cry

too many games i have held the lead but lost because of the sole reason that ostheer do not need to tech, they can survive on zero fuel units, not build any base buildings, and then SUDDENTLY OH WOW ONE OF THE BEST TANKS IN THE GAME.

so the focus becomes trying to win the game before the 15 minute mark passes


US needs either a lategame buff and a early game nerf, not just a early game nerf, because then they'll lose every game ever

Tiger doesn't arrive before 25 minutes at least.And 2 jacksons can keep it at bay well.Ofc 90% of ost won't survive till that .Ost vs usf is autowin for usf at equal skill.

Tiger doesn't arrive before 25 minutes at least.And 2 jacksons can keep it at bay well.Ofc 90% of ost won't survive till that .Ost vs usf is autowin for usf at equal skill.

....the tiger just backpedals into a PAK line, and the jackson has a low chance of penetrating....

as soon as the tigers hit the field, USF can do nothing but cry

too many games i have held the lead but lost because of the sole reason that ostheer do not need to tech, they can survive on zero fuel units, not build any base buildings, and then SUDDENTLY OH WOW ONE OF THE BEST TANKS IN THE GAME.

The Jacksons excel against Tigers, however. Not only do Tigers have less armour, but they have less range, less speed and mobilty to properly engage and chase. Sure Tigers can blast infantry and mediums, but it's also this giant veterency pinata for Jacksons who can pick away at the thing. You don't need to kill it since it takes forever to repair. If you're going to get vetted Jackson, it's going to be from blasting heavy armour that cannot engage back, particularly the Tiger. USF late game has more trouble with Panthers, particularly from OKW, since they can chase down the Jacksons and are difficult to penetrate. Said unit also hard counter Ost T3. If Ostheer could afford Panthers, they would probably use those to kill off the Jacksons than trying to get Tigers while Grens do the AI work.

The main problems I have encountered in Ost vs USF is that Rifles outclass Grens at all ranges early, but they also a more numerous very early on. They can engage you with three rifles at the fuel point early when you only have 2 x Grens and a Pio. This allows them to instant win the early crucial engagements and from that point on it's an uphill battle. Perhaps a build speed increase is required for the T1 building to allow Ost to get Grens or MG's on to the field earlier. USF can make Rifles straight off the bat, so can Soviet. The delay caused by building the T1 building for Ost is something I think needs to be investigated and trialled to see if it helps by allowing units onto the field quicker to help with the first engagement.

I think vanilla rifles need to be nerfed hard at long and medium ranges but make then extra deadly if they close in on Grens or Volks. Then there long range can be improved by purchasing 1919's or BAR's.

I stopped making MG42's a long time ago vs USF as they are instantly gibbed by either smoke or a blob that focus fires them. I mean, what the fuck is the point of a machine gun if a blob of infantry can just focus fire the gunner until the whole crew dies.

Buffing the MG42's suppression and targeting will make it a more viable unit against early rifles. Smoke grenade needs to be removed from the game, simple as that or make it 80 munitions to use.

....the tiger just backpedals into a PAK line, and the jackson has a low chance of penetrating....

Since onus is on axis player to attack and retake territory(running low on VPs) he needs to be offensive,somthing paks are bad at,especially with rifle/para/1919 blob hovering.
Ofc 90% matches won't last that long.

I'm just saying Tigers are not this end of the game, USF auto losses to that you're making it out to be. Yes, you only have 53% chance to pen at max range, but that's still 1/5th of the Tigers life. And the complaint about Ostheer holding out for them is the same for every single other call-in. Is it fair that USF can call-in superior E8s to demolish Ost T3 units except the vet 1 StuG with pak support? Soviet bringing in t-34/85s while saving for the next pair of tanks by not teching. StuG Es deployed to smash infantry with anything. That's a problem with the current system.

Besides, so what if Ostheer is my main faction, the faction is hardly considered Axis when any discussion about Axis is involved since it all usually gets directed to OKW due to the things they can do over Ostheer.

....the tiger just backpedals into a PAK line, and the jackson has a low chance of penetrating....

1.Pick Infantry company

-LMGs on rifles
-Priest to kill PaKs
-Offmap
+You can still have Jacksons

2.Pick Airborne

-Double LMGs on paras vaporize grens
-Skillplanes do good damage to Tiger

Yesterday my upgraded Armored Car was countered by 3 shocks squads

1 model dead and almost dead car that supposed to counter infantry a bit

Imagine that Luchs is countered by Shocks or AA truck is countered by PzGrens (without Schrecks)

Balance!

Yesterday my upgraded Armored Car was countered by 3 shocks squads

1 model dead and almost dead car that supposed to counter infantry a bit

Imagine that Luchs is countered by Shocks or AA truck is countered by PzGrens (without Schrecks)

Balance!

Welcome to the party.
Finally taking a taste of glorious ostheer i see.

Welcome to the party.
Finally taking a taste of glorious ostheer i see.

Yea, but still 7W/1L in last 8 games (better than as USF or OKW) Which is weird...

I lost only vs massive cons spam - idk how to deal with that

Yea, but still 7W/1L in last 8 games (better than as USF or OKW) Which is weird...

Matchmaking I'd guess.
I've had a terrible USF player rant and rave in a 1v1 that .."relic finally needs to buff USF."
... less than 10 minutes into the game against my mediocre OST play

I lost only vs massive cons spam - idk how to deal with that

I guess conspam vs. Ost is the main reason why some people are reluctant to consider lmg upgrades for cons.

Flame post #11 invised. Others here are discussing the problem in a mannered fashion. Reference to 'Axis/Allied fanboys' or demanding to see playercards is unnecessary.

Back to topic.

nurf usf early game. but buff the late game