Well that stream was... *sigh*

So i watched the stream vid today and i have to say that Relic is unbelievable (i am being ironic here and i will continue being that). What are they thinking and not revealing us the 50 Page Word doc with their Roadmap for COH 2. Freaking unbelievable.

Seriously now, what do you guys want?
Sorry but i don't get this constant negativity from so many members here. Its way to much guys. Give Relic a break (and the rest of the community)!

I think the community was looking more for what to look forward to the next couple of months not just when the bug patch was, but when to expect a new balance patch along with some new multiplayer content.

I think the community was looking more for what to look forward to the next couple of months not just when the bug patch was, but when to expect a new balance patch along with some new multiplayer content.

But the thing is that Relic never said that th stream is about that. The community it self did that and now because its not what they want the blame relic for something that the didn't do.

In my eyes it is like this:
Relic announces a "fun" stream (with no extra comment on the content), just a stream.
The community wants/assumes that it is gonna be a stream with many many informations about the balance and future content.
Then Relic does not deliver that (because they never said that they gonna deliver) and now every one here is pissed with them for something they never did. I dont get it.

I get that the community wants stuff (balance, new content) but this is not the way to ask for them. Its like a spoiled 5 year old that wants and wants wants.

Since when did Relic things like that and eveybody thinks that they start now????

My point of view is that the game is good, it is fun and i will keep playing it. I know that there is a lot to fix out there but i wont get to hang up about that. I think Relic will fix (most of them) the shity stuff but with their own pace.

So keep calm...

So what most of you guys are saying to the guys that get hyped (?): Don't get hyped.
I think its pretty normal people get hyped when they hear there will be a CoH2 stream. Especially after new year. I think its pretty normal people are dissapointed when stuff like this happen..

It's amazing the justifications people can construct for acting in thoroughly reprehensible manner.


"I know I throw my pudding around, piss all over anything of value, scream incoherently and generally act like an incontinent howler monkey. Sadly I have to do that because it's the only way to get things done.

It really pains me to have to act like that over a video game but I have no choice and I really don't enjoy it at all.

When I'm not doing that I appreciate medieval literature, pre-Raphaelite painting and garden parties"

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. And just so we are clear, I did not participate in the stream at all, nor do I really think a lot of the comments that were made are appropriate (keeping in mind I only know what was said through form posts after the fact).

What I'm saying that this is a trend with the Company of Heros community. People have tried posting nicely on the forms, they have tried putting up websites devoted to improving game play (eg. Romeo's bug tracker) and it's simply not working. So now people are pissed and angry at relic, and having already tried the official channels and been unsuccessful they are looking for new ways to incite change. For most mature older adults, its to continue lobbying relic through their official channels. However this is the internet, and not everyone has highly developed social skills.

If this were back in the ages of kings, what we would be witnessing at the moment is a civil war, likely resulting with the head of a king being put on a stick. But it's not the dark ages, its 2015. So instead we get a whole bunch of internet trolls who throw insults out in an attempt to make the developers aware of how angry they are, and or quit their jobs to make way for new developers who can fulfil the communities needs and wants.

well i feel like it's okay to be disappointed.... how come some people are making it like people who aren't complaining are taking the moral high ground? i feel like it's okay to be disappointed and supportive at relic. please don't make it where you are automatically "better" than someone because you support relic.

Regarding the call-in meta, it was noted that we recognize the cost efficiency of call-ins and their impact to the meta. However, we feel that a solution to call-ins cannot occur until we remove the reliance Soviet players have on these units. This likely means some changes to make Soviet core units more appealing/viable.

This as been acknowledge by the DEV over 6 months ago. Where is the solution ?

This as been acknowledge by the DEV over 6 months ago. Where is the solution ?

The way I read him, solving the problem calls for a major SU rework. My guess is such an undertaking has simply been out of the question while they worked on AA.

Seriously, PQ's post had massive content, as I understood him. He acknowledged that both OKW and SU needs fundamental changes. That isn't going to come fast, but I believe it will indeed come. That is one of the things I really respect about the current Relic; they are willing to make fundamental changes.

Their model for change should be Blizzard with Diablo 3. Man, say what you like about Blizzard but they aren't afraid to turn a product upside down if they have to. The community were thrilled when they shot a sacred cow like the Auction House and reworked the key class skills.

I know Blizzard is a giant company compared to Relic, but the point is they listened, they adapted and they took action.

Their model for change should be Blizzard with Diablo 3. Man, say what you like about Blizzard but they aren't afraid to turn a product upside down if they have to. The community were thrilled when they shot a sacred cow like the Auction House and reworked the key class skills.

I know Blizzard is a giant company compared to Relic, but the point is they listened, they adapted and they took action.

They do that, because they can afford changes like this.
Not a single other studio will ever do that because of $$ reasons.

To be fair I would say Sega is pretty guilty of being poor at PR, what I think they really failed at is how they released the game, WFA and AA.

Fragmented and overpriced.

Why was splitting the content a failure? Was it really over priced?

COH2 - $60 (at release.
WFA + AA - $60.

From my point of view the staggered release was an awesome! As I primarily play multiplayer, I didn't have to wait 5 additional months to get the content I wanted. Additionally I didn't have to buy the single player content.

From the strategic PR point of view they have 2 big releases in 6 months.

With regards to the OP: Relic announced before hand that the stream wasn't going to be anything other than, a Friday end of day, kill some time before we have to clock out kind of stream. That's what we got. Why is everyone complaining?

Why was splitting the content a failure? Was it really over priced?

COH2 - $60 (at release.
WFA + AA - $60.

From my point of view the staggered release was an awesome! As I primarily play multiplayer, I didn't have to wait 5 additional months to get the content I wanted. Additionally I didn't have to buy the single player content.

From the strategic PR point of view they have 2 big releases in 6 months.

With regards to the OP: Relic announced before hand that the stream wasn't going to be anything other than, a Friday end of day, kill some time before we have to clock out kind of stream. That's what we got. Why is everyone complaining?

40 Euros for a short SP campaign despite its quality was too high, especially when other RTS games offer more for the same amount.

The WFA were released too early, they didn't retro fit the maps to function with the new factions and they were badly imbalanced.

40 Euros for a short SP campaign despite its quality was too high, especially when other RTS games offer more for the same amount.

The WFA were released too early, they didn't retro fit the maps to function with the new factions and they were badly imbalanced.

The price was too high? I bet you there is +500,000 hours of development for $120??!?!? Plus support, online services, and free updates?

To paraphrase NWFresh - That's amazing value. Even if I break it down per hour played; I'm looking at pennies my cost.

Are there issues then and now? - Yes
Can the game get better? - Yes
Is the game a failure? - No: Its an amazing game, great value, super fun.

COH2 - $60 (at release.
WFA + AA - $60.

Well, for me, I was one of the preorder ppl and yeah, the game kinda cost me $90 AUD back then, you know, when CoH2 was still in THQ's hands.

I think, to their credit, Relic stopped releasing some of those blatantly P2W commanders (Sov Industry, Elite troops, back in the day it was game-breaking) in the past that caused me to quit - that and their battle servers keep me playing CoH2 about a year and a half afterwards.

Unlike most of the posters here, I've taken a break from a year and a half ago, and coming back, the improvements that have been made in CoH2 have been very noticeable, esp since I haven't really followed the CoH2 scene that much.

Personally, I believe CoH2 deserves a bit more credit that than they're getting. At the same time, there are some gamebreaking bugs that do need to be fixed and relic does need to pay attention to this.

The price was too high? I bet you there is +500,000 hours of development for $120??!?!? Plus support, online services, and free updates?

To paraphrase NWFresh - That's amazing value. Even if I break it down per hour played; I'm looking at pennies my cost.

Are there issues then and now? - Yes
Can the game get better? - Yes
Is the game a failure? - No: Its an amazing game, great value, super fun.

Yep the price was very high for what it is offering. AA didnt have any new assets apart from some new audio, its so called meta map was a complete lackluster. It did have some really top quality intro videos in some missions but I doubt this alone added the replayability relic was advertising.
Then compare it lets say with the last Dragon Age which was roughly at the same money(actually cheaper during the holidays), how much original content was put into that game and tell me what AA offered.
Also dont forget that Opposing fronts was something like 20 euros?, it had 2 new factions, IMO a better campaign (still playing it occasionally) and relic was still in business after releasing it.

Regarding the call-in meta, it was noted that we recognize the cost efficiency of call-ins and their impact to the meta. However, we feel that a solution to call-ins cannot occur until we remove the reliance Soviet players have on these units. This likely means some changes to make Soviet core units more appealing/viable.

That means russian commanders without heavies are worthless.

The price was too high? I bet you there is +500,000 hours of development for $120??!?!? Plus support, online services, and free updates?

To paraphrase NWFresh - That's amazing value. Even if I break it down per hour played; I'm looking at pennies my cost.

Are there issues then and now? - Yes
Can the game get better? - Yes
Is the game a failure? - No: Its an amazing game, great value, super fun.

To make it clear I'm talking about just AA.

Fans of the franchise will purchase it, that is a given but pricing (39 euros) a small amount of SP content (AA) and not including the MP isn't an attractive offer for potential customers and thus has put people off.

And then having to purchase 2 extra versions of the game just to access the MP armies isn't ideal, especially when the COH2 vanilla (is still 34 euros) campaign wasn't that high quality.

COH2 can indeed survive by just relying mostly on its fanbase but to attract new customers a complete package is better.

Two things.

I pre ordered COH 2 for 35 Euros. So much about the price for WFA and AA.

For months i read thousands of posts that the game needs a bug fixing patch and.... Relic is now delivering but people still raging about the stream abd that there is nothing important in it.

This community is a little and

All I want from Relic is:

1. Performance tweaks. My rig is a monster. It is the large hadron collider. I paid a lot of money for it and it eats other games for breakfast. Yet I have some issues with CoH2. This makes me a sad panda.

2. A balance patch [...]

3. A more relaxed, chilled-out attitude towards discussing stuff. You aren't the NSA. Chill. The' Fuck. Out.

4. Related to 3, why in general terms don't you just discuss what you'd like to do in future. Man, I've followed the Creative Assembly for *years* before and after Sega. They discuss stuff in a way you don't. Take the criticism, Relic, we love what you do but this is (by a country mile) your biggest problem as a company and hamstrings any attempt to have a meaningful dialogue with fans / customers and community.

5. Yeah, this community is fractious and a bit of a nightmare. It's like herding cats. Ignore fifty per cent of what they say. Do stuff for single player. Then ignore another forty per cent. But ten percent of what this community says is golden. That's the bit that needs capturing. It's like that aftershave from Anchor Man. Sex Panther - I dunno, a third of the time it works thirty per cent of the time or whatever the fuck the quote is.

6. Man I love this game. At the same time I hate this game. You can't make a game like this and not expect people not to get passionate about it. Imagine if you'd made a 'meh' game.

+1000, all of this!

Also, thank you PQ and Cynthia for posting some claryfing stuff on the stream. I think that's the way to go for better communication with the community.

Despite all the hating and whining, the CoH community has so many people who are passionate about the game and contribute every day with with constructive posts, streams, casts, guides or whatever.

However, the current MP meta and performance is truly annyoing. There is nothing more frustrating than losing due to performance. I think people get that these issues can not be changed over night, but please give us something to look forward to! That would also help making communication in the forums more constructive and less bitter.

+1000, all of this!

Also, thank you PQ and Cynthia for posting some claryfing stuff on the stream. I think that's the way to go for better communication with the community.

Despite all the hating and whining, the CoH community has so many people who are passionate about the game and contribute every day with with constructive posts, streams, casts, guides or whatever.

However, the current MP meta and performance is truly annyoing. There is nothing more frustrating than losing due to performance. I think people get that these issues can not be changed over night, but please give us something to look forward to! That would also help making communication in the forums more constructive and less bitter.

I think that is why Relic puts up with the whining, because deep down everyone in this community wants to see this game succeed.

If the PR team thinks a QA session while the answerer is playing a game is appropriate, then that speaks very low of the team's intelligence as a whole.

Seriously, it's like having a video conference with your boss and coworkers while driving a school bus full of kids. That's just... dumb.