Where is USF air superiority?

Basically this myth about rockets from P-47s and Typhoons being the bane of German tankers is nothing more than a myth. AT-guns did the most of the damage both in the east and west.

Yep it goes along with the Sherman was a POS tank even though in all three theaters less then 1/3rd were losses compared to the massive number of T34s lost (which for the record is much more highly regarded then said Sherman).

I have read the same information. I have also read the USF Tank Destroyers could do nothing to German Armor. I have also read that USF handheld Antitank could do nothing to German armor. I have also read that USF AT guns had a hard time doing anything to German armor.

Which then begs the question...how the hell did we manage to kill so damn many of them?

P47 and Typhon Rockets could destroy P4s and Below IF they managed to hit them. And they did damage the heavier tanks. Whats more important is they took out all the tanks Logistical Support.

So instead we could be more historic and have USF Army Aircore doctrine. And say spend muni to cut down Axis fuel by 80%...

Okay so the army air corps exaggerated on its tank kills. Why no anti-infantry strafe? Why no carpet bomber? It seems a bit... horseshit that the luftwaffe can have a presence in the game but the usaac can't because history? ummm...... no. gameplay? how are american skillplanes antithetical to gameplay? true the botb was during crap weather so no planes, but it fell apart when.... the skies cleared and the army air corps could relieve/rearm front line troops and start attacking ground targets again. but since when is this game caught up on historical acuracy? I'm positive that the germans didnt have effective infrared anything during the battle of the bulge. The had some prototype i/r scopes in like feb 45. historical acuracy would demand far more panzerfausts and far less panzershreks. also would demand far more p ivs and far less of everything bigger.

wwii proved that whoever controls the skies will control the ground/sea. Luftwaffe proved that, and was then summarily defeated and then the western allied troops invaded with american air cover.

i do not doubt they lied about their kills, but that doesn't change the fact that allied air supremacy was a major factor in winning the war. The only faction with a real air presence is the .... Ostheer.??!!?!?!

I'm not saying every american doctrine should have p47 at rockets. I am saying the us army is wildly misrepresented in the game concerning airpower( and artillery)

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I don't think he means that's the main reason they launched Wacht Am Rhein when they did. Pretty sure he means that's partly the reason why they chose the 16th instead of for example the 15th of december.

Oh than I have misunderstood him. I am sorry about that. I thought I was reading some irony and sarcasm between the lines. Again I am sorry about that.

I'm not saying every american doctrine should have p47 at rockets. I am saying the us army is wildly misrepresented in the game concerning airpower( and artillery)

But the Major both has overflight and a crap arty barrage. And every doctrine EXCEPT Elite Rifles and Airborne have pretty kick ass offmap arty.

I think they did a good job showing USF always had those things. But the non doctrinal variety sucks ass.

But it annoys me that for "gameplay", King Tiger and Jagdtigers were readily available and deployed everywhere. The Battle of the Bulge AKA battle of the heavy tank fetish.
Allied air "superiority" had been bombing strategic positions as well as keeping control of the sky, but the secret underground nazi super factories that are mass producing super heavy tanks cannot be stopped.

Yup you are 100% correct. My point was "Lets not use historical arguments to make this change to the game, because there isn't one" But sure the gameplay is what matters and I don't think adding more airstrikes is a good solution, fix the faction design instead. I'd rather see players microing units than calling down airpower/arty or sitting at a chokepoint with long-range units, like the ISU/Jagd/ele

Off-topic I'd love to see a more historical game without the sillyness of seeing more or less prototypes in each game. Plus after that I listen to certain devs state they are going for authenticity, makes me cringe.

Then just focus on a) It wouldn't be fun. Skillplanes are currently boring as hell. Adding more will not help the situation. It is better to have the player micro units that click two buttons to counter a threat.

Agree, skillplanes are noob tools on both sides. All air strikes need rework = only one raid with low impact for less munition. But this is qustion of balance.

I speek about ignoring the strongest element of USF (air and heavy artillery).

PS: Micro? If you must micro two Jacksons (Michael ofcourse), you have few time control rest army. It is realy hell, but I enjoy it.

-Off-topic I'd love to see a more historical game without the sillyness of seeing more or less prototypes in each game.
- Plus after that I listen to certain devs state they are going for authenticity, makes me cringe.

-Same.
-I also cringe whenever Relic emphasizes authenticity within the factions because whenever i look at the factions and their design/layout, i see none of the fervor mentioned.

1) German production levels of 1944 were no less than the previous years, in fact they increased.
2) Alot of trained soldiers were dead but almost every german soldier had training even the teenagers before entering combat, thus ur point makes no sense.
3) Blitz is the name of an ability (tank drives faster) this is not related to Blitzkrieg.
4) Obersoldaten represent the elite of the elite that were still alive. SS Nord had moved from Finland to the Western Front by end of 1944 (My grandfather had been with them). Sturmtiger did exist and Ostwind did as well.

1. still not enough for stoping soviets and USF/Brits
2. only shadow past power
3. realy?
4. my grandfather fight in the sky above him

I dont want historical flame, i only missing part of USF army in game.

I agree with somenbjorn:

(...) Skillplanes are currently boring as hell. Adding more will not help the situation. It is better to have the player micro units that click two buttons to counter a threat.

I agree with somenbjorn:

Some axis fanboy wrote "In this game is too many heavy tanks, we dont need more and this is reason, why USF can not get one".

This is not solution.

1. still not enough for stoping soviets and USF/Brits
2. only shadow past power
3. realy?
4. my grandfather fight in the sky above him

I dont want historical flame, i only missing part of USF army in game.

1) True, History shows us that they lost. But at the same time thier production has higher thus I was correcting your incorrect statement
2) There were still plenty of elite troops left in the German army so from that sense Obers are correct, however their in game "uberness" isnt...every man dies sometime lol.
3) Yes, the ingame "Blitz" is relics fantasy and it in no way refers to Blitzkrieg, though german panzers did move fast and hard intially during the BotB until ran out of fuel.
4) Nice, me saying that was just to bring forth support for point 2 for he had served since the formation of SS Nord and they were very much elite troops having fought in Finland all the way down to the western front.

I have read the same information. I have also read the USF Tank Destroyers could do nothing to German Armor. I have also read that USF handheld Antitank could do nothing to German armor. I have also read that USF AT guns had a hard time doing anything to German armor.

I've read that US tank destroyers were plenty good at actually destroying tanks and mostly had a favorable kill to death ratio. It was just the doctrine that was overall not very efficient because it's much better to have a tank that can handle any situation at any time rather then hope to hell you have a tank destroyer when a tank comes over the hill.

I've read that US tank destroyers were plenty good at actually destroying tanks and mostly had a favorable kill to death ratio. It was just the doctrine that was overall not very efficient because it's much better to have a tank that can handle any situation at any time rather then hope to hell you have a tank destroyer when a tank comes over the hill.

Yep TD was a fail doctrine. My point though is you can read 1000 articles and 100s of books and you will find many that say how useless everything was against German armor. Even a commander of a Jackson said that it was trash because of the Trajectory was similar to how the Bulldozer Sherman is modeled in game where the 75MM of the Panther was flat.

All of this is well and good. And there is truth to all of it. But the results are still the same. German tanks were lost in droves. So SOMETHING had to be doing all that killing

USF needs more plane abilities. It really is puzzling

1) True, History shows us that they lost. But at the same time thier production has higher thus I was correcting your incorrect statement
2) There were still plenty of elite troops left in the German army so from that sense Obers are correct, however their in game "uberness" isnt...every man dies sometime lol.
3) Yes, the ingame "Blitz" is relics fantasy and it in no way refers to Blitzkrieg, though german panzers did move fast and hard intially during the BotB until ran out of fuel.
4) Nice, me saying that was just to bring forth support for point 2 for he had served since the formation of SS Nord and they were very much elite troops having fought in Finland all the way down to the western front.

you point out things that justify certain abilities and units in the game, and yet it sees only okay for Germans to have them and not USF and Soviets?

Some axis fanboy wrote "In this game is too many heavy tanks, we dont need more and this is reason, why USF can not get one".

This is not solution.

Agreed! In my opinion U.S. definitively needs a better lategame and proper counters especially to axis heavies.

Edit:
But I am not quite sure if more AT-airstrikes will help U.S. lategame. I fancy the idea of a Pershing/heavy Sherman Jumbo/Firefly. In fact a unit you have to micro. But that is another story to be told.

Regarding AI-airstrikes, please let them come.

Yep TD was a fail doctrine. My point though is you can read 1000 articles and 100s of books and you will find many that say how useless everything was against German armor. Even a commander of a Jackson said that it was trash because of the Trajectory was similar to how the Bulldozer Sherman is modeled in game where the 75MM of the Panther was flat.

All of this is well and good. And there is truth to all of it. But the results are still the same. German tanks were lost in droves. So SOMETHING had to be doing all that killing

The majority (2/3s+) of German tanks in the West were lost to fuel/parts shortages, and therefore abandonment rather than kinetic Allied action. That is a point the already quoted Niklas Zetterling nicely makes btw, and where Allied airpower came into its own. Its effect was not so much in the destruction of tanks themselves, but rather in interdiction, destruction of soft-skinned vehicles, etc. which were paramount to keeping actual armor going and supplied. The ordeal of Panzer Lehr in its move to Caen illustrates that German predicament nicely, from the beginning of the Normandy campaign the Germans could only really conduct operational road/rail movement by night lest they risked severe harassment.
That said, in the realm of actual scholarly literature, I have not come across about all that many people claiming US armor/AT was somehow impotent in the face of their German counterparts.

I don't see skill planes any differently than off map arty. Click two buttons and some stuff happens. The fact that ostheer has infantry strafes, 37mm strafes, and dive bombs while usf has p47 rocket strafes just doesn't equate. Usf has better off map arty, albeit in mostly unused doctrines. It seems like the same argument against jumbo or pershing. "Well there are too many now and it breaks the meta" one side gets all the good toys and the other goes to bed with no dinner.

Relic has stated multiple times that Ostheer represents 1944 army on full retreat, that is why they are so defensively designed.

The only early war representation is within mechanized assault doctrine with MP40 assault troops and stubby stugs, everything else is late war stuff when germans were on the run and soviets on the offensive.

Soviets are designed as early war army with 3 units from the end of the war.

That doesn't change the fact that the luftwaffe was very active on the eastern front. even in 1944.

I dont understand why USF cant have another strafing run type ability. Relic releases new commanders all the time with tons of call in arty abilities. Take a look at the OST Close air support commander. The game is not perfect and it will never be perfect, so why not add a muni heavy ability?