Where is USF air superiority?

Where is USF air superiority?
Axis have heavy tanks and elite infantry, Soviets have "many", ehm, decent heavy tanks, swarm medium tanks and many infantry. USF in war have untrained infantry, poor tanks, but absolut air dominance and strong artilery. Firs two have in game, but why USF in game dont have air attacks? Only one commander have P-47 AT strike (realy strong) and second commander have recon aircraft. Major can call reacon also, but other sides have much more air strikes and bombs attack, then USF. Why?

Relic hate USA or history?

In all the axis commanders who got tons of various plane off-maps even thou the game is settled at the time where luftwaffe was harder to spot then dodo birds.

Agreed. I'm not saying usf should have a skillplane in every doctrine but there should be a army air corps doxtrine. clone the damn ostheer one for all i care, just give the army with the most superior air force some sort of air presence in the game. ive thought this since the beginning of WFA.

Maybe its the lack of U.S. Commanders? There are only 6 U.S./OKW towards how many Wehr and Soviet ones?

Because a) It would be boring and b) less tanks were knocked by airpower than claimed by the airforce. According to Niklas Zetterlings book Normady 1944 only about 7% of destroyed german tanks during the Normandy campaign (circa 1500 in total) can be said to have been knocked by airpower.

In Sledgehammer by Christopher Willbeck he explores the knocked Tigers during operation Goodwood. 13 were lost to airpower, 7 of them by high altitude carpet bombers before Goodwood began. Typhoons knocked 6 of them.

During the entire Operation goodwood the two airwings claimed some 390 knocked tanks. After the battle some 460 heavy German AFVs were standing knocked out on the battlefield, 300 were inspected. 10 had been knocked by airlaunched rockets. 3% of claimed became confirmed.

At Mortain the airforce of the allies claimed about 75 more kills than the germans had tanks.

Basically this myth about rockets from P-47s and Typhoons being the bane of German tankers is nothing more than a myth. AT-guns did the most of the damage both in the east and west.


There is your explanation, it doesn't make sense form a gameplay standpoint nor from an historical one.

There is your explanation, it doesn't make sense form a gameplay standpoint nor from an historical one.

True dat and well explained. But unfortunately historic facts are not sellable to the common ruck.

Well to be fair, it is somewhat obvious that Germans had lost air control on both fronts at the end of the war. This is somewhat reflected by the fact that OKW, which represents latewar German army, has almost no form of air abilities. Wehrmacht, which represents early war Germans, have plenty of air abilities, to represent their massive air superiority over the Soviets during Barbarossa. The problem lies more in the design choices, which lets the same army being represented together while being from two distinct timeframes (and obviously lets also USF fight alongside USSR).

Also i'm surprised by your post somenbjorn, even though i'm an avid history geek of that period, i still believed in the "myth" you are describing. You learn new things every day, thank you

Well to be fair, it is somewhat obvious that Germans had lost air control on both fronts at the end of the war. This is somewhat reflected by the fact that OKW, which represents latewar German army, has almost no form of air abilities.

Airborne assault

Wehrmacht, which represents early war Germans, have plenty of air abilities, to represent their massive air superiority over the Soviets during Barbarossa.

Relic has stated multiple times that Ostheer represents 1944 army on full retreat, that is why they are so defensively designed.

The only early war representation is within mechanized assault doctrine with MP40 assault troops and stubby stugs, everything else is late war stuff when germans were on the run and soviets on the offensive.

Soviets are designed as early war army with 3 units from the end of the war.

Airborne assault

Read his post better.

True dat and well explained. But unfortunately historic facts are not sellable to the common ruck.

I guess that must have been the reason why the nazis wouldn't dare launch an attack without unfavourable weather conditions for allied planes.

Because a) It would be boring and b) less tanks were knocked by airpower than claimed by the airforce. According to Niklas Zetterlings book Normady 1944 only about 7% of destroyed german tanks during the Normandy campaign (circa 1500 in total) can be said to have been knocked by airpower.

In Sledgehammer by Christopher Willbeck he explores the knocked Tigers during operation Goodwood. 13 were lost to airpower, 7 of them by high altitude carpet bombers before Goodwood began. Typhoons knocked 6 of them.

During the entire Operation goodwood the two airwings claimed some 390 knocked tanks. After the battle some 460 heavy German AFVs were standing knocked out on the battlefield, 300 were inspected. 10 had been knocked by airlaunched rockets. 3% of claimed became confirmed.

At Mortain the airforce of the allies claimed about 75 more kills than the germans had tanks.

Basically this myth about rockets from P-47s and Typhoons being the bane of German tankers is nothing more than a myth. AT-guns did the most of the damage both in the east and west.


There is your explanation, it doesn't make sense form a gameplay standpoint nor from an historical one.

Why you speak about efficiency? Do not confuse efficiency with the fact.

In 1944 german dont have fuel, factories did not produce enough tanks and tanks had technical problems. Most trained soldiers were already dead or in captivity.

Myth? This game is full of myth. Blitz in 1944, Obersoldaten (what is this? zombies on steroids from Wolfenstain? Sturmtiger and Ostwind (zero impact in war and only few pieces).

US Soldiers weren't untrained.

Also i'm surprised by your post somenbjorn, even though i'm an avid history geek of that period, i still believed in the "myth" you are describing. You learn new things every day, thank you

No worries, Im sure I believe some untruths to be true. WW2 is suffering much from war time propaganda being carried over by to the cold war and then repeated ad nausium for 60 years.
Fanboys from all sides digging up shit sources from the last century keeps the myths alive.

Had to debunk the "Polish cavalrymen charging panzers" myth so often I have a good source bookmarked at home

I was wondering the very same thing, USF lacks air power. I think it would be redundant if we give USF the same abilities as Osth tho. How about adding a powerful muni heavy (200+) carpet bomb ability in a commander?

Why you speak about efficiency? Do not confuse efficiency with the fact.

In 1944 german dont have fuel, factories did not produce enough tanks and tanks had technical problems. Most trained soldiers were already dead or in captivity.

Myth? This game is full of myth. Blitz in 1944, Obersoldaten (what is this? zombies on steroids from Wolfenstain? Sturmtiger and Ostwind (zero impact in war and only few pieces).

Then just focus on a) It wouldn't be fun. Skillplanes are currently boring as hell. Adding more will not help the situation. It is better to have the player micro units that click two buttons to counter a threat.

I guess that must have been the reason why the nazis wouldn't dare launch an attack without unfavourable weather conditions for allied planes.

Nope, there are a plenty of reasons why the Nazis didn´t launch an attack earlier than the "Battle of the Bulge". Just think about the allied designated target of Operation "Market Garden" on the other side: Capturing intact bridges over the river rhine but also capturing enough deep water harbours supplying the troops and ending the "Red Ball Express" from normandy. Analysing history is not just saying "Ohh, that´s the best tank in WWII" or "Yeah, the nazis had the best armies in the fourties!"

Edit: Nor it is memorization of facts everybody does in history courses at school.

Why you speak about efficiency? Do not confuse efficiency with the fact.

In 1944 german dont have fuel, factories did not produce enough tanks and tanks had technical problems. Most trained soldiers were already dead or in captivity.

Myth? This game is full of myth. Blitz in 1944, Obersoldaten (what is this? zombies on steroids from Wolfenstain? Sturmtiger and Ostwind (zero impact in war and only few pieces).

1) German production levels of 1944 were no less than the previous years, in fact they increased.
2) Alot of trained soldiers were dead but almost every german soldier had training even the teenagers before entering combat, thus ur point makes no sense.
3) Blitz is the name of an ability (tank drives faster) this is not related to Blitzkrieg.
4) Obersoldaten represent the elite of the elite that were still alive. SS Nord had moved from Finland to the Western Front by end of 1944 (My grandfather had been with them). Sturmtiger did exist and Ostwind did as well.

Nope, there are a plenty of reasons why the Nazis didn´t launch an attack earlier than the "Battle of the Bulge". Just think about the allied designated target of Operation "Market Garden" on the other side: Capturing intact bridges over the river rhine but also capturing enough deep water harbours supplying the troops and ending the "Red Ball Express" from normandy. Analysing history is not just saying "Ohh, that´s the best tank in WWII" or "Yeah, the nazis had the best armies in the fourties!"

I don't think he means that's the main reason they launched Wacht Am Rhein when they did. Pretty sure he means that's partly the reason why they chose the 16th instead of for example the 15th of december.

There is your explanation, it doesn't make sense form a gameplay standpoint nor from an historical one.

But it annoys me that for "gameplay", King Tiger and Jagdtigers were readily available and deployed everywhere. The Battle of the Bulge AKA battle of the heavy tank fetish.
Allied air "superiority" had been bombing strategic positions as well as keeping control of the sky, but the secret underground nazi super factories that are mass producing super heavy tanks cannot be stopped.

Besides, real tanks that were properly mass produced and performed well without large mechanical failures did all the work. I can design stereotypes without the drawbacks, too. :/