The Easiest Change to Help With Balance

Then I dont understand the problem you are trying to address. If you dont tie a units relative power to its upkeep cost then why bother mess with population? Yes you COULD have more units but if their upkeep isnt tied to their relative power you are just using more resources to support the same thing. Since Manpower is the most limited resource and will just keep going down as upkeep is increased then congrats you have 3 more units then he does but still cant afford to replace or reinforce losses...

Allies tend to get pop capped in a good game before the axis players at the end of the mid game. The reduced populations would allow allies to stay on similar grounds through out the rest of the game.

reduction in upkeep will hopefully allow for the manpower drain to not be utterly crippling.

So here is the story that I have seen for myself and on too many streams. Allies do well in the beginning. Axis start fighting back and the game evens out a bit. Allies get earlier armor and pop capped before axis. This halt in unit production allows axis players to catch up In supply and through having bigger marbles continue to do better and better until they outright turn the tables in the late game (some times at the last 100 VP's).

The reduction in populations would allow allies to continue to field more units and have the superior numbers to take on the growing axis army that out scales them.

Plus upkeep is already not tied very well to relative power. Anything in this game with a munitions upgrade isn't represented in the upkeep system at all which is one of the reasons Soviet design is flawed. Players complain about instant wiping capabilities but what else are you supposed to do when you cannot upgrade any of your units to have things like MG's or hand held AT?

Another reason relative power to population is not represented is due to the veterans. Some units have really powerful combat scaling which is not at all seen by the upkeep system. That is one of the reasons OKW scaling is so out of control and why they seem to have little manpower drain. Their units gain such great veterans and combat Prowers that over time they simply do not loose as much

I miss pop cap being tied to territory control.

I don't.

Being pushed back and not being able to even reinforce your infantry was anything but healthy for gameplay.

Allies tend to get pop capped in a good game before the axis players at the end of the mid game. The reduced populations would allow allies to stay on similar grounds through out the rest of the game.

reduction in upkeep will hopefully allow for the manpower drain to not be utterly crippling.

So here is the story that I have seen for myself and on too many streams. Allies do well in the beginning. Axis start fighting back and the game evens out a bit. Allies get earlier armor and pop capped before axis. This halt in unit production allows axis players to catch up In supply and through having bigger marbles continue to do better and better until they outright turn the tables in the late game (some times at the last 100 VP's).

The reduction in populations would allow allies to continue to field more units and have the superior numbers to take on the growing axis army that out scales them.

Plus upkeep is already not tied very well to relative power. Anything in this game with a munitions upgrade isn't represented in the upkeep system at all which is one of the reasons Soviet design is flawed. Players complain about instant wiping capabilities but what else are you supposed to do when you cannot upgrade any of your units to have things like MG's or hand held AT?

Another reason relative power to population is not represented is due to the veterans. Some units have really powerful combat scaling which is not at all seen by the upkeep system. That is one of the reasons OKW scaling is so out of control and why they seem to have little manpower drain. Their units gain such great veterans and combat Prowers that over time they simply do not loose as much

Which is exactly what I said to do. I used heavies as an example. Not just Allies. For example how fair would it be to have lower upkeep for Rifles who are better than Grens? Call ins are simply too effcient why should they not have a higher upkeep?

Is it because most Call ins are allied? And you dont want upkeep to effect them and just effect Axis? For example an IS2 can beat a Tiger but we should lower the upkeep of the IS2?

That's why the Ami's in CoH 1 had the supply yard. Didn't mess with early upkeep but was an option later when upkeep costs started to become painful. Wouldn't mind seeing a supply yard style building or upgrade for both allied factions as pop and upkeep do become troublesome late game.

im quite aware of that and do agree with you. yet from what i gathered the idea behind the original post was to reduce the base popcap of said units, which i, for the sake of a balanced early game, cant agree with

im quite aware of that and do agree with you. yet from what i gathered the idea behind the original post was to reduce the base popcap of said units, which i, for the sake of a balanced early game, cant agree with

You'll notice that there is not a huge difference between large armies and smaller ones in terms of upkeep, it will affect the early game but so little it will be hard to notice

You'll notice that there is not a huge difference between large armies and smaller ones in terms of upkeep, it will affect the early game but so little it will be hard to notice

i do doubt that, but i guess well never know

the easiest change would be to hire people who know how to balence a game

I'm not sure what part of my thread brought up blobbing, Also your suggestion would only stop spamming, not blobbing.

I seem to be the only one fine with seeing spamming of certain units. WWII was not played out with equal parts of every military piece...

If they spam the same unit less, that should lead to less unit to blob... normally.

Thanks.

i think some people are getting confused. the OPs pop cap changes arent suppose to affect the early game. i doubt the pop caps of cons, rifles, grens, and volks and early vehicles will be touched at all. The things that should be changed are heavies and mediums. This would not affect the early game at all, but would affect the late game.

Right now, some of the pop cost of units is a little out of whack. King Tiger is like 24 or 26 pop cap. THe t34/76 is 12. It takes like 4-6 t34/76s just to have a shot at the KT. That is half your army already.

This is not an easy chaNGE. yOU KNOW WHATS AN EASY CHANGE? Fixing the damn unit stats that are as plain as day and easy to fix if relic knew what they were doing.

easiest way to achieve balance, remove usf, okw and sov and play mirror matches.

Ostheer mirror matches all day!!!

This is not an easy chaNGE. yOU KNOW WHATS AN EASY CHANGE? Fixing the damn unit stats that are as plain as day and easy to fix if relic knew what they were doing.

This is quite a bit easier than that, changing dps stats has a wide variety of effects. Changing populations will not really effect combat until later on when there are more units present

i think some people are getting confused. the OPs pop cap changes arent suppose to affect the early game. i doubt the pop caps of cons, rifles, grens, and volks and early vehicles will be touched at all. The things that should be changed are heavies and mediums. This would not affect the early game at all, but would affect the late game.

Right now, some of the pop cost of units is a little out of whack. King Tiger is like 24 or 26 pop cap. The t34/76 is 12. It takes like 4-6 t34/76s just to have a shot at the KT. That is half your army already.

Personally I do not see why not to change Conscripts and Penals. I do think as a whole Allies weapons teams cost to much population.

I don't.

Being pushed back and not being able to even reinforce your infantry was anything but healthy for gameplay.

It was a reason for that. You wouldn't see such unrealistic comebacks nowadays if they kept that mechanic. If you got cornered, you lost, you don't call a KT and win. Or you call a KT and that's all your army. I really do think such a mechanic would much improve balance. But that's not the most important thing for Relic to fix. The most important thing to fix are the bugs.

It was a reason for that. You wouldn't see such unrealistic comebacks nowadays if they kept that mechanic. If you got cornered, you lost, you don't call a KT and win. Or you call a KT and that's all your army. I really do think such a mechanic would much improve balance. But that's not the most important thing for Relic to fix. The most important thing to fix are the bugs.

CAREFUL JohnnyB CAREFUL!

They just "Fixed" memory and caused 5 second freezes. And "Fixed" infantry not using cover causing squad whipes. I am not sure they can dedicate the resources to actual fix code properly without causing other problems they wont address for months.