The Easiest Change to Help With Balance

I believe that the simplest change to drastically improve balance is to adjust the populations for individual units. Currently, they are vastly to similar to warrant good balance, its like two marbles players having the same number of marbles but one side gets Bigger ones. Just before this post I was watching a stream, where an OKW player had a quarter less population, the same number of units, and for the most part better ones.

In my opinion the late game problems with Allies could be at least partially solved by allowing them to act how they did in the war: more numerous. Tank populations and much of the infantry populations need to be cut down to size to allow for more units to be fielded. In the Soviet case there are a lack of munitions permanent upgrades that while the population cost is similar, the performance and investment is way out of wack. This would only slightly affect the early and mid game, for it would slightly lower the economic drain that having a large army does in terms of income which in the beginning there are not many units.

This would also impact the 0 heavy armor problem of USF for now they at least have the ability to field enough armor to deal with the superior Axis medium / heavy armor and infantry.

There are large design problems that will never get solved, but this simple way can at least level the playing fields

I think pop cap is fine but upkeep should be tweaked. If thats possible. I mean the upkeep of a heavy should be PUNISHING but how to do that with pop cap? If they raise the pop cap anymore then you wouldnt be able to build any support for example.

But having to spent 300% of Pop cap to take out a heavy for example doesnt work either.

I fully agree the upkeep system is broken as hell at the moment.

i agree with u OP. some of the pop cap is a little off right now

What you say is true but it still does not completely fix the issue, that playing allies late game, specially USF, needs a lot more micro and is much more demanding.

For every legit heavy tank, it takes more popcap to take it down than how much it occupies. Meanwhile, you also face the rest of the enemy's army.

In big team games, expensive units start to get out of hand in terms of amount and occurance...

Soviets should have 120 pop atleast.Americans can alreday do that by vehicle crew exploit.
American commander units upkeeps need reduction by 3 each,but first free unit needs to be changed too.

but which faction has the best army if all factions are pop capped

I think removing all callins and commanders and focus on basic game builds will do this game more easy to balance.

Soviets should have 120 pop atleast.Americans can alreday do that by vehicle crew exploit.
American commander units upkeeps need reduction by 3 each,but first free unit needs to be changed too.

But if you do that it doesnt solve anything but allow more units on the field. Your upkeep would bleed you so much reinforcing units would be very very hard. And it doesnt solve the heavy tank efficiency problem. So the Soviets can still get more IS2s which further makes Ost T3 useless and the Tiger and KT still take a stupid amount of units that require much more upkeep and fuel cost to take down.

And come on Ambulance 0 pop cap already...

This is honestly only an allies thing that needs to be adjusted. the early game of all the factions play out ok, the late game is the trouble. Due to this problem, Ostheer and OKW have no need of getting their populations majorly modified. Only Soviets and USF need to have some of their populations reduced.

This solution in no way or form addresses the current call in meta or Heavy tank issue, the idea is that it is a quick easy fix to make the middle and late game more even in coh2's Current state.

Even if call in's and heavy tanks get addressed, the same persistent problem of allies pop cap vs axis pop cap will continue to be a problem unless the populations get addressed.

The meta will shift again, and call ins / heavy tanks might go away, but the whole even number of marbles vs even number of Bigger marbles will still plague the game

To help to fend the blobbing tactic and increase the realism :

-Increase the manpower cost of a unit dependent on the number of units of that type already in play and alive.

Example : The first 2 US riflemans would cost the same, but the third could cost 5% more, the fourth 15% more and so on. (numbers are there as example only and would have to be adjusted for each type of unit).

So diversity would be rewarded vs blobbing without the need of debuff or nanny system.

My 2 cents.

Thanks.

This is honestly only an allies thing that needs to be adjusted. the early game of all the factions play out ok, the late game is the trouble. Due to this problem, Ostheer and OKW have no need of getting their populations majorly modified. Only Soviets and USF need to have some of their populations reduced.

This solution in no way or form addresses the current call in meta or Heavy tank issue, the idea is that it is a quick easy fix to make the middle and late game more even in coh2's Current state.

Even if call in's and heavy tanks get addressed, the same persistent problem of allies pop cap vs axis pop cap will continue to be a problem unless the populations get addressed.

The meta will shift again, and call ins / heavy tanks might go away, but the whole even number of marbles vs even number of Bigger marbles will still plague the game

Heavy Tanks are Triple Size Marbles and should have an upkeep that justifies this. I think upkeep could address Call ins and heavy tanks if done right.

You want a Tiger or IS2? COOOL PAY FOR ITS EFFICIENCY MOTHERFUCKER. They can still be wonderful machines of mass destruction but there is a now a big downside and they arent no brainers. It makes lore sense as well. Is it harder to ship in an Engine for a Tiger or a Luchs?

All unit effciency should be managed through upkeep and balanced accordingly. So if Volks scale well SWEET low cost for the unit but potential for Vet5 so upkeep of a more expensive unit.

Oh Conscripts 240 MP dont scale well? Sweet LOWER upkeep. Etc Etc

Heavy Tanks are Triple Size Marbles and should have an upkeep that justifies this. I think upkeep could address Call ins and heavy tanks if done right.

You want a Tiger or IS2? COOOL PAY FOR ITS EFFICIENCY MOTHERFUCKER. They can still be wonderful machines of mass destruction but there is a now a big downside and they arent no brainers. It makes lore sense as well. Is it harder to ship in an Engine for a Tiger or a Luchs?

All unit effciency should be managed through upkeep and balanced accordingly. So if Volks scale well SWEET low cost for the unit but potential for Vet5 so upkeep of a more expensive unit.

Oh Conscripts 240 MP dont scale well? Sweet LOWER upkeep. Etc Etc

Again, that is a good solution for another problem. This is more of a general faction balance solution

To help to fend the blobbing tactic and increase the realism :

-Increase the manpower cost of a unit dependent on the number of units of that type already in play and alive.

Example : The first 2 US riflemans would cost the same, but the third could cost 5% more, the fourth 15% more and so on. (numbers are there as example only and would have to be adjusted for each type of unit).

So diversity would be rewarded vs blobbing without the need of debuff or nanny system.

My 2 cents.

Thanks.

I'm not sure what part of my thread brought up blobbing, Also your suggestion would only stop spamming, not blobbing.

I seem to be the only one fine with seeing spamming of certain units. WWII was not played out with equal parts of every military piece...

This is honestly only an allies thing that needs to be adjusted. the early game of all the factions play out ok, the late game is the trouble. Due to this problem, Ostheer and OKW have no need of getting their populations majorly modified. Only Soviets and USF need to have some of their populations reduced.

This solution in no way or form addresses the current call in meta or Heavy tank issue, the idea is that it is a quick easy fix to make the middle and late game more even in coh2's Current state.

Even if call in's and heavy tanks get addressed, the same persistent problem of allies pop cap vs axis pop cap will continue to be a problem unless the populations get addressed.

The meta will shift again, and call ins / heavy tanks might go away, but the whole even number of marbles vs even number of Bigger marbles will still plague the game

you cant reduce the pop of cons/rifles (you said this was an allie-only-thing) to buff their late game without effecting the early game. if those units need less pop it would result in less upkeep during the early game = more mp. as you said "the early game of all factions play out ok". that would change drastically if you reduce pop on rifles/cons.
i would like to see the pop of all medium tanks being reduced, considering how many [any given medium tank]s you need to properly fight a heavy. if i remember correctly 2x t34/76 is 24pop. same as the tiger, yet you need MUCH better micro to fight with 2 T34s against a tiger and come out on top

I think removing all callins and commanders and focus on basic game builds will do this game more easy to balance.

And removing wheels from a cars will do good for preventing speeding and accidents.
Doesn't mean it would be a good idea, or even possible one.

Yours is pretty much the same.

I miss pop cap being tied to territory control.

I miss pop cap being tied to territory control.

I don't, its how games spiral out of control too fast and leave no room for come backs. The current territory system is great for allowing players to skillfully come back unlike the old system where if you start getting beat, not only is your income lower but the number of units you can field.

Plus army value discrepancies already make it hard for the smaller army (not OKW) to win, populations tied to territory would only make it worse

Again, that is a good solution for another problem. This is more of a general faction balance solution

Then I dont understand the problem you are trying to address. If you dont tie a units relative power to its upkeep cost then why bother mess with population? Yes you COULD have more units but if their upkeep isnt tied to their relative power you are just using more resources to support the same thing. Since Manpower is the most limited resource and will just keep going down as upkeep is increased then congrats you have 3 more units then he does but still cant afford to replace or reinforce losses...

you cant reduce the pop of cons/rifles (you said this was an allie-only-thing) to buff their late game without effecting the early game. if those units need less pop it would result in less upkeep during the early game = more mp. as you said "the early game of all factions play out ok". that would change drastically if you reduce pop on rifles/cons.
i would like to see the pop of all medium tanks being reduced, considering how many [any given medium tank]s you need to properly fight a heavy. if i remember correctly 2x t34/76 is 24pop. same as the tiger, yet you need MUCH better micro to fight with 2 T34s against a tiger and come out on top

That's why the Ami's in CoH 1 had the supply yard. Didn't mess with early upkeep but was an option later when upkeep costs started to become painful. Wouldn't mind seeing a supply yard style building or upgrade for both allied factions as pop and upkeep do become troublesome late game.