OKW/Wehr Panther Spam with super-heavy tanks

Hey guys,

So I play a lot of 2v2 games with a friend and usually we have a decent win rate using a variety of tactics/doctrines. We have run into severe problems recently however using a rather standard one:

Usually I go T1 --> T2 then wait for IS-2's (Shock Rifle Frontline), while he goes for T2 --> T4 play (Counterattack). In recent games however, despite holding at the very least our fuel, and for one game both fuels and most of the map for the majority of the game; we find ourselves completely undone at the very endgame.

When the axis are below 100 VPs, sometimes with less than 10 to go we are pushed back by a King Tiger (sometimes a Tiger too) but more importantly 2-4 Panthers supporting it. 2 IS-2's with AT gun and SU-85 support, vetted infantry too, just gets pushed back further and further it seems - the IS's taking a beating and having to repair for years. Panther and KT front armour seems to be able to tank it significantly better, causing a lot of glancing shots from all of the above. They also seem to be repaired quicker or have enough panthers undamaged they can chase down the occasional damaged vehicle and blitz away or just sit at the VPs and chip away far too well at infantry trying to cap.

What are we doing wrong?

welcome to COH2

Whats you mates B4 doing in the meantime?

Put mines down against Panthers. Dont spam that flameshit to often, even tho its good. Mines are better.

Focus down any minesweepers when u see them. It forces him to bring them along.

Build an additional CE for repairing, he has sturmpios and truck for fast repairs, remember that.

Have your SU85s and IS2 on one line, kite back the Su when they get closer. So u make sure all ur AT hits his panthers, which have 50 range and can otherwise use a good angle to attack ur is2 without beeing punished by at guns and su85.

Go aggresive for flak truck covering one vp early (When first SU85 arrives, max range attack ground. Just screen for 30 seconds and its gone). So you can tripple decap them later and force them to fight on all map, not just 2/3.

It's no secret that German armor is very powerful; both Ost and OKW can reach a critical mass of armor that the fragile allied vehicles can rarely achieve. Most of your team plan should not be based on holding off armor, but rather scoring the kills. These kills are necessary to prevent Nazi armor from reaching that mentioned critical mass.

I'm not a fan of the Su85 for many reasons; the armor is bad and the poor pathing makes it vulnerable to the shrek blob. But more than that, I find the SU85 holds off German armor but it does not kill it. That's not what we need. Those tanks need to die.

Here are some good ways to score actual kills:
-rushing overextended Panthers with t34's, even if they trade poorly it's worth the kill
-B4 strike against repairing tanks, great way to kill maybe the only real option of dealing with KT/JT. There is a lot of ways for smart player to hard counter the B4, but I find most just sit there blankly while getting shelled; expect them to complain on forums afterwards
-American P47 strafe is great since you can call it in on a half health tank when you see the opportunity
-2x Jacksons with HVAP can kill an overextended panther before it gets back
-Mines everywhere you expect a panther to rush in, ie everywhere
-Mark target is a great asset and really lets you finish a tank before it escapes, just be sure to call the plane early to debuff is in place when shells fly
-American M20 mines - true death to a panther that expected to blitz away


I would suggest not using IS2s. That just means you are playing the late game like OKW wants. The IS2 is a beast, but late game Axis power is off the charts. If you do want to use the IS2 I think both you and your teammate needs to get them and fight in unison.

Your teammates B4 is a good choice, make sure he knows how to pre-position it.

You may want to consider going for a doctrine with Mark target, maybe both Mark Target and t34/85's. The Mark is really important for killing the big cats.

Or consider going American. Perhaps USF. The P47 strike is strong, as are Jacksons and Airborne. Jacksons are iffy against Panthers and poor at fighting KT's, but they can do a lot of damage if your opponent lets you. Jacksons can scare off wounded Panthers that your mate can then try to B4. Another great option as the Americans is to get an M20 and just lay AT mines on the major roads. These mines will often immobilize and are extremely potent on scoring kills.

Nomatter what doctrine is picked I feel you and your B4 teammate should both get T34's. When a Panther overextends rush and dogpile it. Shoot it, block it, ram it, whatever needs to be done to get the kill.

If you do manage to keep the cat numbers down you can then bleed out their infantry blobs with your T34's and B4. With any luck you can win the match and become a statistical outlier for OKW's current team game win rate.

Thanks for the advice guys. We'll give it a go.
Do you really think 76's are the way to go though? Just reading your post I'm having visions of T34 wrecks everywhere in sight with a low health Panther zooming away.

When the axis are below 100 VPs, sometimes with less than 10 to go we are pushed back by a King Tiger (sometimes a Tiger too) but more importantly 2-4 Panthers supporting it. 2 IS-2's with AT gun and SU-85 support, vetted infantry too, just gets pushed back further and further it seems - the IS's taking a beating and having to repair for years. Panther and KT front armour seems to be able to tank it significantly better, causing a lot of glancing shots from all of the above. They also seem to be repaired quicker or have enough panthers undamaged they can chase down the occasional damaged vehicle and blitz away or just sit at the VPs and chip away far too well at infantry trying to cap.

What are we doing wrong?

IMO one of the reasons you lost is that your team lacked tanks that can do close quarter combat like T-34 or PzIV.

As Soviet i think one should not spam Su-85s without T-34 (76/85)'s support, on their own they can't do shit against infantry and vulnerable to armor rush. IS-2 or other heavy tanks are good but expensive, have low rate of fire and not very accurate on the move.

Try a combination of Is-2 supported by T34-85s, you have good anti-infantry and anti-tank. Also if you hold fuel points, that doesn't mean that your opponents don't receive any fuel (supply chash, trading mun for fuel)