Jackson needs a slight buff

anyone care to explain why an IS-2 is roughly equal to a Tiger I when its more in line with a Tiger II?

KT is nondoctrinal, has more health, faster reload, does more damage, and usually faces off against much crappier tanks than its friendly partners (axis tanks are tougher and have better AT).

IS-2 is better than the Tiger, can fight the Tiger II, but the Tiger II is still in its own league.

KT is nondoctrinal, has more health, faster reload, does more damage, and usually faces off against much crappier tanks than its friendly partners (axis tanks are tougher and have better AT).

IS-2 is better than the Tiger, can fight the Tiger II, but the Tiger II is still in its own league.

I meant in the context of reality.....

I meant in the context of reality.....

That's just the way they balanced the game. They decided that OKW gets super units and that the Tiger should not be much worse than the ISU to make the lategame OH vs Sov matchups somewhat symmetrical with heavy callins. Actually I seem to recall that at various points it was better in some ways, although I may be remembering wrong there.

Jagdpanzer doesn't have 240 dmg..hats the main thing and no turret.Also for fuel starved OKW getting KT plus say 2 jagds is very difficult.Pershing plus 2 jacksons won't be as difficult.
Can't remember the last time i saw tiger and panther together from 1 player.
Also americans alreday have far superior infantry,if they also have tanks that way-ostheer has no chance.

Starved faction? Really? Yesterday I got Panther and 2 King Tigers in 50min 1v1.
Turret has nothing to do with that if you are using unit as a puncher behind meatshield.
Yes, 160dmg but a way better armor and more hp so you won;t lose it by lag or something.

Starved faction? Really? Yesterday I got Panther and 2 King Tigers in 50min 1v1.
Turret has nothing to do with that if you are using unit as a puncher behind meatshield.
Yes, 160dmg but a way better armor and more hp so you won;t lose it by lag or something.

And if u were american/ost/sov u could have got even more than that fuel.
Turret is very useful because unlike su-85 which(especially in cone) totally lols when backtracking or trying to turn/escape-meaning if meatshield dies..its relatively helpless,jackson can escape easily..firing with its turret doing huge dmg along the way.
Armor and Hp don't matter when ur kiting.Dmg does.

This is not about KT or ISU or IS2 or Pershing. It's about jackson. And yes, it needs a buff, I've been saying this for months. I don't know precisely what kind of buff, but it needs to be more durable or more sharp.

This is not about KT or ISU or IS2 or Pershing. It's about jackson. And yes, it needs a buff, I've been saying this for months. I don't know precisely what kind of buff, but it needs to be more durable or more sharp.

And this brings us back to the original problem, if you buff Jackson Ost cannot use T3. It cannot really use it now but that seems like a bad idea. Without a further "level" Americans will continue to suffer. They need a way to stay in the very late game.

And if u were american/ost/sov u could have got even more than that fuel.
Turret is very useful because unlike su-85 which(especially in cone) totally lols when backtracking or trying to turn/escape-meaning if meatshield dies..its relatively helpless,jackson can escape easily..firing with its turret doing huge dmg along the way.
Armor and Hp don't matter when ur kiting.Dmg does.

You do of course realize that the 240 a shot is balanced by its slow reload relative to other dedicated tank destroyers right? Both the SU85 and the JP4 do more DPS even if the Jackson does more alpha. An example of the usefulness of this both the JP4 and the SU85 will kill off an engine damaged tank faster then the Jackson.

So please stop with the sillyness about its damage per shot. I would prefer the Pen and DPS of the SU85 over the silly 240 damage with a slow TD reload thanks.

SU85 time to kill P4 at max range 16.8 seconds 12.6 with Mark Vehicle (See how OP the SU85 is!!!!! lol)
Jackson time to kill P4 at max range 17.4.

So there if your lazy. Have some facts with your breakfast.

Edit:

I take that back the JP4 will kill it slower even with its better reload at 20 seconds at Max range.

And this brings us back to the original problem, if you buff Jackson Ost cannot use T3. It cannot really use it now but that seems like a bad idea. Without a further "level" Americans will continue to suffer. They need a way to stay in the very late game.

So reduce damage and increase penetration+ROF to compensate. USF players don't build Jackson because they're worried about PzIV, they build them because they're worried about Tigers and Panthers and KTs. It's their only option for heavy stuff. But it's not even very effective in that role because it's such an underwhelming flanking tank that blows up when a stiff breeze rolls its way. And as a tank sniper against heavies it's not amazing because you need favorable RNG to penetrate and enemy tank hunters like the Panther can and will roll up,garden them, then blitz or smoke away while giving you the finger. And I hope they didn't actually kill one of your paper mache tanks, because you can't afford a battle of attrition against Panthers.

Jackson could be given independantly from vet

-1) A Precision shot, 100% pen any tanks, cost XX ammo, XX mins cooldown.

So you know you can finish a heavy tank or to have a good engage. It doesn't impact Ostheer T3 since Jackson already pen Pz4

variante: Precision shot on vehicule having less than 30% life: automatically increase Jackson pen by XX. No cost, no CD. Same idea as jaeger light infantry or reco infantry.

-2) A smoke, simply a free jail card, same as the Puma has.

Variante: A smoke shell you shoot at an enemy tank so he cannot see you, with a acceleration and speed debuff for XX seconds.

NB: I'm not saying Jackson need both, but one of those option would be something increasing or his survivability or his reliability in certain situations.

You do of course realize that the 240 a shot is balanced by its slow reload relative to other dedicated tank destroyers right? Both the SU85 and the JP4 do more DPS even if the Jackson does more alpha. An example of the usefulness of this both the JP4 and the SU85 will kill off an engine damaged tank faster then the Jackson.

So please stop with the sillyness about its damage per shot. I would prefer the Pen and DPS of the SU85 over the silly 240 damage with a slow TD reload thanks.

SU85 time to kill P4 at max range 16.8 seconds 12.6 with Mark Vehicle (See how OP the SU85 is!!!!! lol)
Jackson time to kill P4 at max range 17.4.

So there if your lazy. Have some facts with your breakfast.

Edit:

I take that back the JP4 will kill it slower even with its better reload at 20 seconds at Max range.

This is where ur mistaken.Big dmg means less time to react.When facing a 40 range tank,a tank destroyer will usually get in a first surprise hit from the dark.And another while it backs or moves.Now jackson needs only one more shot to kill pz 4.Su-85 needs 2.
Also U can prevent su-85 from hitting u by moving to the sides and even flank it due to its poor mobility.Jackson will laugh at such attempts as turret will simply rotate and it can wipe u out even when backtracking.
Ur raw data doesn't take into account these ground realities my friend.

Jackson could be given independantly from vet

-1) A Precision shot, 100% pen any tanks, cost XX ammo, XX mins cooldown.

So you know you can finish a heavy tank or to have a good engage. It doesn't impact Ostheer T3 since Jackson already pen Pz4

variante: Precision shot on vehicule having less than 30% life: automatically increase Jackson pen by XX. No cost, no CD. Same idea as jaeger light infantry or reco infantry.

-2) A smoke, simply a free jail card, same as the Puma has.

Variante: A smoke shell you shoot at an enemy tank so he cannot see you, with a acceleration and speed debuff for XX seconds.

NB: I'm not saying Jackson need both, but one of those option would be something increasing or his survivability or his reliability in certain situations.

Your post gave me an idea. Remember Panzer Elite ATHT from vCoh? That sdkfz with a small AT gun mounted on top? It has an ability to shoot the engine or to target the tracks. Give to jackson such an ability for xx amo. One shot that will allways penetrate/hit and damage the engine. That way "smoke and get away" will not be so efficient for german tanks, they will move much slower. Meanwhile the hit will not damage anything but the engine.

Your post gave me an idea. Remember Panzer Elite ATHT from vCoh? That sdkfz with a small AT gun mounted on top? It has an ability to shoot the engine or to target the tracks. Give to jackson such an ability for xx amo. One shot that will allways penetrate/hit and damage the engine. That way "smoke and get away" will not be so efficient for german tanks, they will move much slower. Meanwhile the hit will not damage anything but the engine.

You crazy?That would mean insta kill tiger/panther/KT for a few munitions as jackson takes potshots at it from range with impunity.

Jackson is fine as is. If anything increase the penetration of its vet 1 ability because it shouldn't bounce against frontal armor, but decrease the run time of it.

Stuka costs more fuel because it's the most powerful mobile artillery piece. To be honest OKW is hardly "fuel starved" because of their teching and the ability to invest munitions into shrecks and mines for dealing with vehicles, which allows them to save fuel.

Solutions for stuka: Slightly decrease the reload time and decrease the HP to 240.

Your post gave me an idea. Remember Panzer Elite ATHT from vCoh? That sdkfz with a small AT gun mounted on top? It has an ability to shoot the engine or to target the tracks. Give to jackson such an ability for xx amo. One shot that will allways penetrate/hit and damage the engine. That way "smoke and get away" will not be so efficient for german tanks, they will move much slower. Meanwhile the hit will not damage anything but the engine.

That would be very overpowered. That along with the p47 combo would insane.

That would be very overpowered. That along with the p47 combo would insane.

I think so, my idea is the jackson need to be more reliable when fighting. It doesn't need any particular control ability, just an ability to make sure you are dealing damage 1 least 1 time when you need it.
Or a free jail card so you can take some more risk chasing or flanking.

That would be very overpowered. That along with the p47 combo would insane.

I dunno about that P-47. When I use it, it underperforms. When used against me, it's deadly . Strange feeling.
Note that I didn't say "destroyed engine" I said "damaged engine", so the german tank can still move even if it moves much slower. For an unsuported heavy german tank, that could be the end. Otherwise, I really, really doubt. If this shot would be expensive as amo cost, how manny time do you think you will be able to use the P-47 - this shot combo? Most probably (IF you use paratrooper doctrine) once per game, because, USF needs bars, zooks, fighting positions, mines, maybe some arty strikes from major, grenades throwing and so on. All these cost amo, and without them, what are the chances against Axis infantry (especially OKW)?

This is where ur mistaken.Big dmg means less time to react.When facing a 40 range tank,a tank destroyer will usually get in a first surprise hit from the dark.And another while it backs or moves.Now jackson needs only one more shot to kill pz 4.Su-85 needs 2.
Also U can prevent su-85 from hitting u by moving to the sides and even flank it due to its poor mobility.Jackson will laugh at such attempts as turret will simply rotate and it can wipe u out even when backtracking.
Ur raw data doesn't take into account these ground realities my friend.

Your also forgetting that the Soviet faction has mines and AT nades. You kill snared tanks with the SU85 this has always been the case.

Now if USF could run around planting 30 Muni mines everywhere and tossing AT nades rather then having to be Vet 1 and have the buggy often misfiring AT Rifle Nade then your point could stand.

Big Damage Per Shot doesnt mean it kills anything faster. The SU85 still can drop a tank faster and much much faster with Mark Vehicle. Remember the SU85 DOES THE SAME DAMAGE PER SHOT AS THE JACKSON WHEN MARK VEHICLE IS UP. Hell even the T34/76 does(and it has a turret! Dear lord lets not talk about the T34/85!) OMGOP!!!!

The damage is just that. Wow I can possibly do 240 damage to you before you blitz away rather than 160. Not to mention the lower Pen that the Jackson has. Oh yeah and of course it cant focus site....

Edit: Also in your example your going all balls to the walls crazy to take out a Tank Destroyer with a Tank? Thats like trying to throw Rifles at an Obersoldaten...You better have more then 1....

Your also forgetting that the Soviet faction has mines and AT nades. You kill snared tanks with the SU85 this has always been the case.

Now if USF could run around planting 30 Muni mines everywhere and tossing AT nades rather then having to be Vet 1 and have the buggy often misfiring AT Rifle Nade then your point could stand.

Big Damage Per Shot doesnt mean it kills anything faster. The SU85 still can drop a tank faster and much much faster with Mark Vehicle. Remember the SU85 DOES THE SAME DAMAGE PER SHOT AS THE JACKSON WHEN MARK VEHICLE IS UP. Hell even the T34/76 does(and it has a turret! Dear lord lets not talk about the T34/85!) OMGOP!!!!

The damage is just that. Wow I can possibly do 240 damage to you before you blitz away rather than 160. Not to mention the lower Pen that the Jackson has. Oh yeah and of course it cant focus site....

Edit: Also in your example your going all balls to the walls crazy to take out a Tank Destroyer with a Tank? Thats like trying to throw Rifles at an Obersoldaten...You better have more then 1....

And ur also forgetting USF can afford double bazooka rifles to support,each have their advantages.
Mark vehicle is doctrinal.Is mark vehicle even available with an is-2 doctrine that u can combo?In t-34/85 doctrine,no one gets su-85 but waits for call-in then uses mark target with that.
What u don't understand is that u can turn away and su-85 won't be able to follow due to about mobility,if flanked its dead.Jackson can not only track ur flank by turret rotation,also demolish u while backtracking unless pathfinding is terrible.Jackson can also chase down wounded vehicles(not talking abt okw blob) which su-85 just can't.

Focus sight is often a weakness for su-85 because of its terrible mobility and inability to turn in time its cone.No my example is that pershing plus jackson would be far more terrifying than is-2 plus su-85 which is intimidating enough.

And ur also forgetting USF can afford double bazooka rifles to support,each have their advantages.
Mark vehicle is doctrinal.Is mark vehicle even available with an is-2 doctrine that u can combo?In t-34/85 doctrine,no one gets su-85 but waits for call-in then uses mark target with that.
What u don't understand is that u can turn away and su-85 won't be able to follow due to about mobility,if flanked its dead.Jackson can not only track ur flank by turret rotation,also demolish u while backtracking unless pathfinding is terrible.Jackson can also chase down wounded vehicles(not talking abt okw blob) which su-85 just can't.

Focus sight is often a weakness for su-85 because of its terrible mobility and inability to turn in time its cone.No my example is that pershing plus jackson would be far more terrifying than is-2 plus su-85 which is intimidating enough.

So your ignoring the facts and putting in scenarios. Simple as that. The SU85 CAN kill armor better and especially with Mark Vehicle. Whether or not that is the meta is not relevant. There has been units with Turrets that did 240 Damage a shot since the game has been introduced. This means the ONLY thing that is special about the Jackson AT ALL is its mobility. Which is balanced by its terrible HPs and Armor.

I can AS the Soviets do better with Dual T34/85s out of Guards Motor then I can with a Jackson. Then I have a combined 1600HPs doing 240 a shot at closer ranges and getting better Penetration as a result AND having AI.

The 240 damage a shot at least in 1v1 where YOU CANT POSSIBLY have Mark Vehicle (as USF) is just a Straw Man.
Especially when you consider there is no IS2 or ISU152 or hell even KV1 for USF.

You can try all you want and throw in all this "What-Ifs" but the stats do not lie. All the Soviets need to do is snare a tank and the SU85 will do better then the Jackson. And Soviets do not lack snares. Now most people wont do that in the current meta because the Teching costs are fucked. That has nothing to do with the units.

Edit: And sorry Double Zook rifles now that is hilarious. You must be talking about 4v4 there...