soviet t3 and t4 cost issues....

there is a huge issue with this that relic needs to fix... i dont no how many times i try to seal a game with an early t70 after good early game micro but the amount of fuel it costs just to secure a t70 or t34 is outrageous.. okw can get a flaktrack out really early and ostheer always seem to call in stug e which obliterate infantry and require no tech and then go straight too tiger.. basically soviet players have to wait it out tell an is2 or any call in tank and this can cost you alot of infantry mid game trying to at nade and delay tell call ins. the ostheer assault doctrine gives you that mid game ai stug e without t3 or t4 costs.. soviets need to have a more accessible mid game armor so they can stop relaying on call ins..

Soviet t3 & t4 are expensive and the units in thise tiers suck as well except the katyusha

you can try the T-34/85 with 120mm/Mark target one, well, the T-34/85 kinda suck but you don't need to spend money in Tier structures. Again, it's a call-in issue which exists for a long time and not sure they are going to fix it.

both ostheer and soviet teching is horrenduosly overpriced.

Did you... just said that 2nd best* medium tank in game sucks?






*not counting panther, its medium only from name

both ostheer and soviet teching is horrenduosly overpriced.

Compared to USF and OKW pricing, their teching is a joke.

Ostheer teching uses up way too much manpower and Soviet teching is "designed" to choose only T3 or T4 (if the units in the tiers and their placement wasnt bad enough). Compared to OKW and USF teching where teching to every building is affordable and viable and the tech building gives you BONUSES (in which USF is very manpower efficient, and OKW buildings help you be on the offensive/defensive).

Biased teching design... Why does Ostheer and Soviet teching have to be so bland, expensive, and unforgiving? Out with the old, in with the new. If only Relic bothered to TOUCH old (bad) designing, but that probably costs too much money...

you can try the T-34/85 with 120mm/Mark target one, well, the T-34/85 kinda suck but you don't need to spend money in Tier structures. Again, it's a call-in issue which exists for a long time and not sure they are going to fix it.

Blasphemy! T34/85 is sick and twisted, tank has slightly less AT power and armor than a panther for loads more AI power. Two of them can take on most Axis Tanks even without Mark Target. You also get them in pairs(except for that one limited time doc)for a price that, while expensive as a whole, makes each tank cost a little more than a P4 for being comparable to a Panther.

Soviet t3 & t4 are expensive and the units in thise tiers suck as well except the katyusha

The katyusha sucks too

Blasphemy! T34/85 is sick and twisted, tank has slightly less AT power and armor than a panther for loads more AI power. Two of them can take on most Axis Tanks even without Mark Target. You also get them in pairs(except for that one limited time doc)for a price that, while expensive as a whole, makes each tank cost a little more than a P4 for being comparable to a Panther.

It has far worse armor compare to a panther, and it's a doctrinal, and no turret mounted machine guns like Easy8 or Panthers, Yes it's main gun has better AI than a panther, but the MG42 turret mounted compensate by some margin,why so fancy on a T-34/85, I'd take a single command panther/JS-2/Tiger over a pair of T-34/85. Or the easy8

The katyusha sucks too

^

The katyusha sucks too

but you need them for OKW blobs.

Let's compare Soviet and OKW tech costs:

Soviet T1 or T2: 50 fuel

Soviet T3 or T4: 120 fuel

Soviet T-70: 70 fuel (need to invest 50 + 120 + 70 = 240 fuel to get out)

Soviet T-34: 110 fuel (need to invest 50 + 120 + 110 = 280 fuel to get out, note: 20 fuel more than double T-34/85s which are a lot better)

On top of that soviets need to tech at leats AT nades for additional 25 fuel. Molotovs are pretty good too, even just for cover denial or winning engagements, another 25 fuel - while OKW comes with schrecks just at the expense of munitions, very cheap grenades and obers have free LMG34s.


OKW T1 or T2: 40 fuel

OKW Flak HQ: 80 fuel

OKW Puma: 100 fuel (need to invest 40 + 100 = 140 fuel to get out)

OKW Luchs: 50 fuel (need to invest 40 + 80 + 50 = 170 fuel to get out)

OKW Panther: 175 fuel (need to invest 40 + 80 + 175 = 295 fuel to get out)

The 66% fuel income doesn't mean anything when the teching costs are dirt cheap. The panther counters the T-34 by miles with just 15 fuel more. This needs to be adjusted. It's even more broken in team games if the OKW player is supplied using the luftwaffe fuel supply (most broken out of these), fuel caches or Opel trucks.

but you need them for OKW blobs.

Yes, and here's the irony: tech to katyusha and you will delay your tanks by 205 fuel. So it's a lose-lose situation, this is why the call-in meta is so favored atm.

Let's compare Soviet and OKW tech costs:

Soviet T1 or T2: 50 fuel

Soviet T3 or T4: 120 fuel

Soviet T-70: 70 fuel (need to invest 50 + 120 + 70 = 240 fuel to get out)

Soviet T-34: 110 fuel (need to invest 50 + 120 + 110 = 280 fuel to get out, note: 20 fuel more than double T-34/85s which are a lot better)

On top of that soviets need to tech at leats AT nades for additional 25 fuel. Molotovs are pretty good too, even just for cover denial or winning engagements, another 25 fuel - while OKW comes with schrecks just at the expense of munitions, very cheap grenades and obers have free LMG34s.


OKW T1 or T2: 40 fuel

OKW Flak HQ: 80 fuel

OKW Puma: 100 fuel (need to invest 40 + 100 = 140 fuel to get out)

OKW Luchs: 50 fuel (need to invest 40 + 80 + 50 = 170 fuel to get out)

OKW Panther: 175 fuel (need to invest 40 + 80 + 175 = 295 fuel to get out)

The 66% fuel income doesn't mean anything when the teching costs are dirt cheap. The panther counters the T-34 by miles with just 15 fuel more. This needs to be adjusted. It's even more broken in team games if the OKW player is supplied using the luftwaffe fuel supply (most broken out of these), fuel caches or Opel trucks.

Um... Check your prices for units again...

T34, puma, - (100 fuel, 70 fuel)

Regardless, OKW T1 is a forward healing FHQ, T2 is a forward repair as well as resource conversion (still useful) and T3 is defense that denies planes, infantry, and armor.

As Ostheer and Soviets, for devoting a CE/pioneer to build a tech building, you get... A massive waste of space!
Not luchs, derp

Um... Check your prices for units and tiering again...

T34, puma, - and arent Soviet T1 or T2 both 60 fuel? (Clarification needed since T1 cost got upped to T2 cost for reasons)

Not luchs, derp

The T-34 might be only 100 fuel instead of 110, but it really doesn't make that much of a difference. Soviet T1 and T2 are both 50 fuel.

hold ur horses,

t-34/85 doesn't suck

you guys think katyusha is rappy? i think it is good for blobs and campers, but i will agree that it costs way too much fuel just to get it

Don't ever involve Ostheer in any discussion about tiers pricing, k ? kkthxbye

both ostheer and soviet teching is horrenduosly overpriced.

+1
They need adjustments or the USF and OKW need looked at

It will take about good 3 years for the game to be fully balanced.