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Panzergrenadiers - worth it?

5 Feb 2015, 11:39 AM
#21
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225



They don't die faster than pretty much any other infantry. So, like pretty much any other infantry, don't charge with them. It's not so fucking hard. And the losing 25% DPS per model is no argument, it's the same for any other SMG squad and noone's crying about them.

It's been said before, they are just not cost-effective. I use them very occasionally on urban maps to discourage flanks, but Grens perform that role almost as well and there is much less risk involved.
5 Feb 2015, 13:05 PM
#22
avatar of CptEend
Patrion 14

Posts: 369


Other infantry don't cost 42 reinforce and 340 mp.Neither do any advanced infantry die as fast.And no other smg squads don't lose 25% dps with 1 model.SO u don't know what ur talking about.


Other infantry squads have more models, thus need to reinforce more than PGrens, so that 42 for reinforce isn't that expensive compared to other squads. And yes, you lose 25% with 1 model, but you won't lose that model as fast as a model in a 6 man squad (because general Ost DPS is higher than Sov DPS to compensate for squad sizes). I regularly play Wehr, and regularly use PGrens, I really don't see how I wouldn't know what I'm talking about. No, they're not the great shock infantry they once were, but they're absolutely not as worthless as you seem to think they are.
6 Feb 2015, 02:26 AM
#23
avatar of sage1337

Posts: 87

I'd like you to provide a replay with good use of PzGrens because for me there's no way in hell to actually use them well as AI squad. High cost and taking ages to reinforce, yeah, thanks, I'd rather recruit another Gren LMG squad or Flamer Pios.
6 Feb 2015, 16:02 PM
#24
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

I use them pretty much all the time when I play ostheer. I find them invaluable to my succes.
6 Feb 2015, 16:15 PM
#25
avatar of Qvazar

Posts: 881

Same here. Quite often I have other things than LMGs to spend munitions on (medics, 222, mines, nades, fausts, flamers) and a pgren is better than another plain gren squad.
Later they get schrecks when tanks start to show up. If not, then grens get LMGs.
7 Feb 2015, 11:58 AM
#26
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

But again - other fractions have much better infantry for close/mid range combat. The biggest difference is babysitting squads. With panzergrens you have to be super careful. Very often, for example, they lose one model in the first volley even when the squad is full health. They can be wiped by a mortar, etc. It's true you can use them well but it's (again with ostheer) much more complicated and risky than with other fractions. One mistakes with them and you lose huge amount of manpower and often munitions. Your opponents may be more concentrating on the general picture of the game while you have to be babysitting mgs, paks, and panzergrens. I guess it's the idea that ostheer should have smaller squad sizes that makes it difficult to balance ostheer units well. IMO they should be 5 member squads and it would be soo much better (even if each model is less efficient). Compare them to bazooka infantry - both effective vs tanks and inf.
7 Feb 2015, 12:46 PM
#27
avatar of CptEend
Patrion 14

Posts: 369

I'd like you to provide a replay with good use of PzGrens because for me there's no way in hell to actually use them well as AI squad. High cost and taking ages to reinforce, yeah, thanks, I'd rather recruit another Gren LMG squad or Flamer Pios.


I had a couple actually, but can't view them since the new patch. I'll upload one when I got a good game with them again.
7 Feb 2015, 12:54 PM
#28
avatar of CptEend
Patrion 14

Posts: 369

But again - other fractions have much better infantry for close/mid range combat. The biggest difference is babysitting squads. With panzergrens you have to be super careful. Very often, for example, they lose one model in the first volley even when the squad is full health. They can be wiped by a mortar, etc. It's true you can use them well but it's (again with ostheer) much more complicated and risky than with other fractions. One mistakes with them and you lose huge amount of manpower and often munitions. Your opponents may be more concentrating on the general picture of the game while you have to be babysitting mgs, paks, and panzergrens. I guess it's the idea that ostheer should have smaller squad sizes that makes it difficult to balance ostheer units well. IMO they should be 5 member squads and it would be soo much better (even if each model is less efficient). Compare them to bazooka infantry - both effective vs tanks and inf.


Generally I'd say Allies need to babysit more than Axis tbh. Their tanks go down much more easily, and most of their infantry are short range which requires more babysitting than long range infantry. I don't find that I babysit my PGrens more than conscripts for instance.

(that's not saying that Axis is easier btw, Ostheer is no doubt the hardest faction in 1v1 right now)
7 Feb 2015, 16:02 PM
#29
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

I love PzGrens. They are best mid-distance unit in whole game.

Dont fight with Paras at max range. Dont fight with Shocks at close range keep them at mid distance, keep MG near to prevent from shocks getting close and that's it.

Use cover, don't charge in front, flank.

Also you can turn them into amazing AT squad in great need.
9 Feb 2015, 14:00 PM
#30
avatar of Gneckes

Posts: 196

Fun fact: a squad of Panzergrenadiere with Ambush Camo and Schrecks will oneshot a T-34, or any US vehicle except the Bulldozer Sherman.
9 Feb 2015, 14:02 PM
#31
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

Fun fact: a squad of Panzergrenadiere with Ambush Camo and Schrecks will oneshot a T-34, or any US vehicle except the Bulldozer Sherman.
Fun fact no. 2: It doesn't work anymore. I tested it out and it doesn't one shot anything worth mentioning except a halftrack.;)
9 Feb 2015, 14:20 PM
#32
avatar of Gneckes

Posts: 196

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2015, 14:02 PMsteel
Fun fact no. 2: It doesn't work anymore. I tested it out and it doesn't one shot anything worth mentioning except a halftrack.;)

But.. but.. why??
Does the Ambush Bonus not apply to Schrecks anymore or something?
9 Feb 2015, 14:25 PM
#33
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1


But.. but.. why??
Does the Ambush Bonus not apply to Schrecks anymore or something?
It does. Just not enough damage to actually kill a regular one hit anymore like the ancient days of CoH2. Now you would do about 2/3 damage to the guy.
9 Feb 2015, 22:44 PM
#34
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1163

I wouldn't recomend routinely using PG as a means to kill tanks, by trying to achieve that they will probably expose themselves to too much fire.

Use them as circle straffe protection for paks, your less likely to drain MP and they can lob an occasional bundled nade Vs flanking squads. Keeps the shreks in your hands this way too.

It should be their job to allow the pak to shine, backed up by grens, MG and HT for AI.
10 Feb 2015, 00:51 AM
#35
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

I think they are worth it, double shreks are amazing with medium armor and pak game play.
3 Mar 2015, 16:04 PM
#36
avatar of ofield

Posts: 420

But Panzergrenadiers have only slightly better DPS on range than stock Grenadiers (even falling below them on far range) and are much worse than LMG Grens, all that while costing 340mp. What's the point then?


PGrens at range 30 = same dps as Grens with lmg (yes WITH lmg) and ofc far better at close - mid range. they are worth it, if you can spare the manpower and it is a mid-close range map.

Fun fact: a squad of Panzergrenadiere with Ambush Camo and Schrecks will oneshot a T-34, or any US vehicle except the Bulldozer Sherman.


not sure about the correct amount of the extra dps for ambush (+ 50%?) but it is for sure not enough to kill a medium tank, a light tank however will probably die, unless it's receives a death crit 2nd life.
3 Mar 2015, 22:03 PM
#37
avatar of FaustCostBulletin

Posts: 521

You need 2 squads for that, but it works.
6 Mar 2015, 03:14 AM
#38
avatar of DAKgasm

Posts: 37

I think that they're ok, but generally not worth the time you have to spend micro-ing them. I think they are too generalized in their ability at the moment.
12 Mar 2015, 13:01 PM
#39
avatar of simpelekees
Patrion 310

Posts: 159

I think they are vulnerable to wipes but they are definitely a good addition for the extra anti inf push or as midgame at support.

they perform well at mid range and suffer damage output with each loss. Therefore i like to keep them healed and in cover. They arent shocks.
16 Mar 2015, 10:09 AM
#40
avatar of mons7erz

Posts: 90

Honestly, Even though they are extremely squishy, PGrens, imo, are most certainly worth it. however, they are quite terrible alone. if you have other units backing them up, like Grens or HMG squads, They are extremely effective. I like them, to be honest they are actually my second favorite unit (First being Grenadiers, just because i love the way they speak and the stuff they say).
Honestly, if it werent for the pgrens in my team, there is a good chance i would of lost more games than i have.

They are very effective against medium armor, as someone had already said their first volley is amazeballs.

But yeah they are squishy, expensive, and cost heaps to reinforce, but i personally think they are worth it, especially when vetted.
I would love to see a buff though!
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