Axis heavy armor needs nerf or Allied AT needs buffs

Jackson costs as much as a panzer4, want it to singlehandedly beat heavy tanks at range? Increase costs

the only thing the jackson needs is severability. I say give it some smoke or more health. Main thing is that it needs to be able to take more then two shot from a heavy.

Reduce Bazooka cost to 50; bazooka and pzschrek long range accuracy reduced or scatter increased or whatever.

Fair?

For the love of God the US faction needs SOMETHING.

The US AT gun, in practice, seems to be the worst piece of garbage I have ever seen. It constantly misses, never seems to penetrate, and doesn't even get the benefit of the ZIS like arty barrage.

The Sherman is utterly pathetic at anything more than wiping large blobs of infantry.

Bazooks are wielded by dead men who don't quite know it yet. No accuracy, no pentration, no damage.

And the M36. Seriously? This thing has garbage maneuverability, laughable penetration vs panthers, has no anti infantry to speak of, and requires an opponent that doesn't know how to hit the NOS (blitzkrieg) button. Panthers 2 shot them, panzer 4s can kill them in 3 shots, pretty much a stiff breeze will kill this tank.

I just lost my 2nd 4 V 4 match today, and in both cases we were wiping the floor with the enemy team. Then out comes the panthers and sure enough the end of the match went down hill quickly from there. The end of the game saw me fielding 3 jacksons with a screen of IS-2's. At first this worked reasonably well, then out come the elephants, the jagdtigers, and the King tigers. Its absolutely absurd that axis can have a screen of troops with devastating panzeshrek hand held AT vs the US who have to try and field 4 units to counter it while dealing with Ultra heavy AT tanks with the range of the entire screen.

Yet relic says they have no plans to add any US heavy tanks. Seriously this company is utterly fucking retarded at balance.

I ended the match north of 95,000 damage from the jacksons as the result of some incredible teamwork on the part of the allies. We had a vastly superior team, but in the end we lost because ultimately the axis players can just spam panthers, tigers, and king tigers with little to no fear of any real AT on the part of the allied faction. With Obercommandos and Panzershreks dominating both infantry/tanks, and the US being forced to use ultra fragile units, the German faction required skill level is absurdly low compared to their allied counter parts Late Game.

The asymetrical balance is awful, has been awful, and will continue to be awful. Relic now has 4 teams to try and balance and my guess is they have no clue what to do about it.

The start is giving the allied faction some goddamn AT that actually works, or just removing the super heavies from the game. They are the main problem right now.

Honestly I believe the root of all tank balance problems start at the Panther. This may seem ridiculous, but this tank really is in a class of its own. Its fast normally, and with blitzkrieg its basically a fucking race car. It has very thick armour, meaning even the best AT weapons only have a 50% chance to pen the front. And supporting that fact, it has high health, so even a few penetrations rarely mean its in any danger. Then we factor in Smoke launchers, which mean that even if you do get it to low hp it has a "HAHAHAAH NOPE" button with a tiny munitions cost.

People say that its suffers from a lack of a decent weapon, but the panther successfully fills the role that everyone wishes there tanks would. Its a line breaker, the tip of the spear. It can effectively engage EVERY SINGLE ALLIED UNIT. Normally these units come in at a much higher cost, such as a king tiger or IS2. Not to mention each of these tanks suffers from a distinct weakness, the king tiger in mobility and the IS2 in survivability (Slower and no smoke launchers).

Ultimately in my opinion the Panther is undeniably the best tank in the game.

Honestly I believe the root of all tank balance problems start at the Panther. This may seem ridiculous, but this tank really is in a class of its own. Its fast normally, and with blitzkrieg its basically a fucking race car. It has very thick armour, meaning even the best AT weapons only have a 50% chance to pen the front. And supporting that fact, it has high health, so even a few penetrations rarely mean its in any danger. Then we factor in Smoke launchers, which mean that even if you do get it to low hp it has a "HAHAHAAH NOPE" button with a tiny munitions cost.

People say that its suffers from a lack of a decent weapon, but the panther successfully fills the role that everyone wishes there tanks would. Its a line breaker, the tip of the spear. It can effectively engage EVERY SINGLE ALLIED UNIT. Normally these units come in at a much higher cost, such as a king tiger or IS2. Not to mention each of these tanks suffers from a distinct weakness, the king tiger in mobility and the IS2 in survivability (Slower and no smoke launchers).

Ultimately in my opinion the Panther is undeniably the best tank in the game.

I agree.

I did a double take seeing that my Jacksons had inflicted 95,000 damage, but upon closer inspection they had very few kills. The problem, as you have aptly stated, is you have a unit with massive health, absurd speed, and laugh out loud survivability with smoke launchers. Near the end of the game the Germans would just blitz in, target my jacksons while ignoring the IS-2's and obliterate them while smoking away. It's incredibly difficult to score a kill on something that has more speed, health, armor, and damage. Not to mention a Jagdtiger and Elephant can 2 shot them from screens away while you have literally 0 counters.

Plus it's not like the Germans suffer from any kind of lack of viable AT. Every single unit in their tech tree does a better job in its role when compared to the allies. I dare you to try and find a situation where that isn't true. The only remaining units of note are the IS-2 (Which Germans complain about non stop, and ISU-152 which I will agree needs to be removed). But unfortunately without them the allied faction has nothing to deal with the heavy and ultra heavy tanks.

The balance right now is worse than it's ever been outside of 1 v 1 with the cheesy M20 rush being the only gambit the US faction seems to wield.

The problem is not that medium tanks are poor, it's that heavy tanks offer VASTLY SUPERIOR surviability vs investment. If you can build 3 medium tanks to his heavy, and his heavy can destroy 1-2 and still get away to repair then you have the current problem with the meta. Flanking is almost NEVER viable so Relics bullshit theory of 2-3 Shermans fighting a Tiger in a vacuum is as ridiculous as the current game balance.

OKW is OP and everyone knows that.

If you can't beat Ostheer it is a pure l2p-issue. Ostheer is currently the weakest faction in the game. I managed to kill 2 OH panthers with a zis and 2 t34s (they are quite expensive for OH btw) and some micro, and Tiger is really not a problem.

The only thing I would do with Panther is removing smoke OR blitz.

okw>soviets>usf>ostheer

For the love of God the US faction needs SOMETHING.

The US AT gun, in practice, seems to be the worst piece of garbage I have ever seen. It constantly misses, never seems to penetrate, and doesn't even get the benefit of the ZIS like arty barrage.

The Sherman is utterly pathetic at anything more than wiping large blobs of infantry.

Bazooks are wielded by dead men who don't quite know it yet. No accuracy, no pentration, no damage.

And the M36. Seriously? This thing has garbage maneuverability, laughable penetration vs panthers, has no anti infantry to speak of, and requires an opponent that doesn't know how to hit the NOS (blitzkrieg) button. Panthers 2 shot them, panzer 4s can kill them in 3 shots, pretty much a stiff breeze will kill this tank.

I just lost my 2nd 4 V 4 match today, and in both cases we were wiping the floor with the enemy team. Then out comes the panthers and sure enough the end of the match went down hill quickly from there. The end of the game saw me fielding 3 jacksons with a screen of IS-2's. At first this worked reasonably well, then out come the elephants, the jagdtigers, and the King tigers. Its absolutely absurd that axis can have a screen of troops with devastating panzeshrek hand held AT vs the US who have to try and field 4 units to counter it while dealing with Ultra heavy AT tanks with the range of the entire screen.

Yet relic says they have no plans to add any US heavy tanks. Seriously this company is utterly fucking retarded at balance.

I ended the match north of 95,000 damage from the jacksons as the result of some incredible teamwork on the part of the allies. We had a vastly superior team, but in the end we lost because ultimately the axis players can just spam panthers, tigers, and king tigers with little to no fear of any real AT on the part of the allied faction. With Obercommandos and Panzershreks dominating both infantry/tanks, and the US being forced to use ultra fragile units, the German faction required skill level is absurdly low compared to their allied counter parts Late Game.

The asymetrical balance is awful, has been awful, and will continue to be awful. Relic now has 4 teams to try and balance and my guess is they have no clue what to do about it.

The start is giving the allied faction some goddamn AT that actually works, or just removing the super heavies from the game. They are the main problem right now.

Panthers two shot them and Pz4s three shot them? Please, explain this math to me.

Hint: The Panther and Pz4 do the same exact damage per shot.

And I guess by your standards the Panther has garbage maneuverability as well? You know... since it and the Jackson have pretty much the same exact maneuverability.

Bazooka penetration is actually quite good. Just too expensive to unlock in my opinion. Plus it is hard to field enough to be a real threat since you'll be cutting muni that could be used for M1919s/P47s/BARs

I did a double take seeing that my Jacksons had inflicted 95,000 damage.

My calculations may be off, but are you sure you didn't mean 9,500? If I did my math right, it should take over 40 minutes for the Jackson to fire 396 rounds to even reach 95,040 damage done.

It's also possible the number was bugged, the game stat tracker has problems calculating total damage sometimes. Once it said I had one death, before any units had even engaged.

My calculations may be off, but are you sure you didn't mean 9,500? If I did my math right, it should take over 40 minutes for the Jackson to fire 396 rounds to even reach 95,040 damage done.

It's also possible the number was bugged, the game stat tracker has problems calculating total damage sometimes. Once it said I had one death, before any units had even engaged.

Could have been bugged, I have never had a score that high before. The game took over an hour though. My player score was in the 6 digits. Near the end it consisted of me fielding 3 jacksons behind a bunch of IS-2s. We basically had wave after wave of panthers and king tigers. When that didn't work they basically just put out Jadgs and elephants and then it was over, you really don't have any reliable answer to that withouut ISU-152's.

It was frustrating as hell because we had them down to 80 points, and they basically bled us from 500 down to 0.

Panthers two shot them and Pz4s three shot them? Please, explain this math to me.

Hint: The Panther and Pz4 do the same exact damage per shot.

And I guess by your standards the Panther has garbage maneuverability as well? You know... since it and the Jackson have pretty much the same exact maneuverability.

Bazooka penetration is actually quite good. Just too expensive to unlock in my opinion. Plus it is hard to field enough to be a real threat since you'll be cutting muni that could be used for M1919s/P47s/BARs

I didn't realize the two had the same damage, that's weird as I could have sworn panthers did more.

There is also something definitely wrong with the M36 pathing, or perhaps its the fact that panthers only have a 50% chance of being penetrated from the front vs 100% in the case of the M36. Regardless trying to keep them at maximum range when you have a super speedy tank that has fucking super powers is enough to make you never want to play the US faction again.

OKW is OP and everyone knows that.

If you can't beat Ostheer it is a pure l2p-issue. Ostheer is currently the weakest faction in the game. I managed to kill 2 OH panthers with a zis and 2 t34s (they are quite expensive for OH btw) and some micro, and Tiger is really not a problem.

The only thing I would do with Panther is removing smoke OR blitz.

okw>soviets>usf>ostheer

since i think this thread is more about 3v3+, i think i have to disagree that ostheer is up in 3v3+. pak is still an awesome at, vet 3 lmg gren easier to achieve, mg42 really nice for yourself and when supporting okw. ostheer mortar still an excellent unit where frontline is more stalemate-y in 3v3+. halftrack forward reinforce awesome. holding out for t4 easier and completely viable given you didnt screw up early/mid game.

One more think...

Yea, Jackson is great unit but only on open wide maps. It has so many pathfinding issues that on some maps (especially ones with forests) it's deadly for USF Players.
Panther can survive most of the pathing issues.
Jackson can't.
So if Relic makes such glass cannon unit it should be able to move to survive so if I'm reversing it should reverse instead of rotate 260 degree if it can rotate over second side for 100 degree.

He's trying to get his driver's license. Cut him some slack.

I didn't realize the two had the same damage, that's weird as I could have sworn panthers did more.

There is also something definitely wrong with the M36 pathing, or perhaps its the fact that panthers only have a 50% chance of being penetrated from the front vs 100% in the case of the M36. Regardless trying to keep them at maximum range when you have a super speedy tank that has fucking super powers is enough to make you never want to play the US faction again.

The main issue for the M36. The panther can just drive 10 metres forward and you get hit. You only have a slight advantage in range and 160 penetration at max range. 1/2 chance of harming stock panther. Now think about vet4 OKW panther. That range boost.

At this point in the game, does the Panther really have any drawbacks? Any at all?


If the Allies had a tank that worked just like the Panther, you would see the forums in a uproar about it.

At this point in the game, does the Panther really have any drawbacks? Any at all?


If the Allies had a tank that worked just like the Panther, you would see the forums in a uproar about it.

Imagine what would happen if US Forces had doctrine with P47+Pershing (Lightning War with JU and Tiger).
But since it's Axis doctrine it's OK

Smoke needs to be taken off panthers and tigers. P4, stugs and the like can all use it, but panther and tigers both have far too much survivability to get a get out of jail free card like that.

At this point in the game, does the Panther really have any drawbacks? Any at all?


If the Allies had a tank that worked just like the Panther, you would see the forums in a uproar about it.

It kills infantry slightly slower then other tanks. Not that infantry can actually do anything to it though.

i've seen AT damage in the 80k range before but that's the total for the game

At this point in the game, does the Panther really have any drawbacks? Any at all?


If the Allies had a tank that worked just like the Panther, you would see the forums in a uproar about it.

Well its mostly unuseable in lower game modes.
Also a line of AT guns is easy solution to shut it down.
Also helpless vs bazooka blobs.

Imagine what would happen if US Forces had doctrine with P47+Pershing (Lightning War with JU and Tiger).
But since it's Axis doctrine it's OK

I don't mind giving usf pershing,but it should disable jackson 240 dmg 3 shot pz 4 production.