Tiger Ace
11 Jan 2015, 06:52 AM
#61
Posts: 954
It need a fuel cost about 250~260 and remove the resource penalty, limit to one of cuz.
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
11 Jan 2015, 07:54 AM
#62
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
Tiger Ace is fine, sorry.
There was a time when it was stupidly OP, that time is passed.
Purists don't like the doctrine because troop training breaks what they view as a fundamental law of the game; but the Tiger Ace itsef? No problem
There was a time when it was stupidly OP, that time is passed.
Purists don't like the doctrine because troop training breaks what they view as a fundamental law of the game; but the Tiger Ace itsef? No problem
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
11 Jan 2015, 09:56 AM
#63
4 
Posts: 542 | Subs: 1
Tiger ace is still too overpowered, especially vs USF in 1v1 and 2v2.
Engage Jacksons, stun, destroy in 3 shots. There is almost no way to kill this thing without p47 or/and m20 mines.
Engage Jacksons, stun, destroy in 3 shots. There is almost no way to kill this thing without p47 or/and m20 mines.
11 Jan 2015, 11:43 AM
#64
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Tiger Ace is fine.
In fact I don't see any difference when dealing with regular Tiger or Tiger Ace.
I'm more scared of Elephant than Tiger Ace, really.
In fact I don't see any difference when dealing with regular Tiger or Tiger Ace.
I'm more scared of Elephant than Tiger Ace, really.
11 Jan 2015, 12:43 PM
#65
Posts: 31
I played a lot with the ace and I win games with Ostheer that way. Soviets shouldn't have a problem with it, if they don't go for a heavy lategame tank, it is maybe a wrong commanderchoice. It is easy to find out that the ace is coming..... USF dont have that option. You can only use P47 as a counter. You can go lucky with M20 mines. But maybe these are not very satisfying options. It is again a problem caused by WFA. I think the whole USF vs. Ostheer matchup is messed up.
12 Jan 2015, 23:59 PM
#66
Posts: 204
Permanently BannedThey at first had the penalty of resources and manpower being zero going on even if you lost the ace. I think they should have kept that. Now they lose the ace and get their income back...
Bullshit, make it a risk not a instant win button if you are in need of such filthy ways to victory
Bullshit, make it a risk not a instant win button if you are in need of such filthy ways to victory
13 Jan 2015, 01:14 AM
#67
1 
Posts: 2885
Yeah, the only problem is caused by stupid usf vs wehr matchup, both factions need changes but usf needs much more. As for the ace it is powerfull of course but the doctrine itself is quite weak and I belive that the argument that it lets loosers comeback is stupid, if usf player cannot drain osther 500 vps before 15cp he wasn't winning at all, nobody can argue with that. Also the penalty is so huge that you don't have to and sometimes you really shouldn't kill the ace as as long it is on the field the enemy is draining manpower so much that he will be left with the ace only and no capping power and that means a lot when you need to comeback. All you have to do is that ostheer is sacrifizing a lot of mid game with that doctrine so if the match is even or allies are slightly winning it in fact means that things are going axis way and axis are the true winner the whole game.
18 Jan 2015, 10:33 AM
#68
Posts: 31
for me it looks like it itensifys the whole usf-ostheer meta. Ostheer is always on disadvantage until late mid/ late game. Tiger Ace is shifting that a bit more in the super late game
18 Jan 2015, 11:09 AM
#69
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
for me it looks like it itensifys the whole usf-ostheer meta. Ostheer is always on disadvantage until late mid/ late game. Tiger Ace is shifting that a bit more in the super late game
And what about soviets, should they just take it? TA needs at least a 100 fuel cost to make it balanced. As it stands now, you can go for p4s to keep early game pressure on your enemy, with 2 paks and tellers up to ward off IS2s, then grab a TA to contest the middlemost VP and use it defensively to kill his armor. (stun means at least 2 free pak volleys)
19 Jan 2015, 14:43 PM
#70
Posts: 31
In my opinion, the late Tiger Ace get punished by the soviet call in meta in the mid game. For example T34-85s just give the soviet player a oportunity window to get a huge advantage against P4s of the Ostheer player. I think T34-85 is the kind of tanks I fear most, when I play TA. Often I had to face around 4 of them when the TA hits the field and that is a real thread for a TA. In combination with mark vehicle they can kill it fast. IS2 is easier to get outmicroed by the TA than 4 T34-85s. For the Soviet Sherman goes the same thing like for T34-85, you have no mark vehicle, but they are easier to get.
Edit (after playing some 1 vs. 1 Ost-USF):
About USF: there is no way to win with Ostheer against USF without a Tiger Ace or Tiger. That matchup is not the topic here... But it is the point why I defend that TA xD.
Edit (after playing some 1 vs. 1 Ost-USF):
About USF: there is no way to win with Ostheer against USF without a Tiger Ace or Tiger. That matchup is not the topic here... But it is the point why I defend that TA xD.
19 Jan 2015, 22:49 PM
#71
Posts: 1026
Just got rolled by TA last night so I'm feeling pretty bitter about it right now.
Does anybody have a list of differences between TA and normal Tiger? I'm interested in the specifics.
Does anybody have a list of differences between TA and normal Tiger? I'm interested in the specifics.
20 Jan 2015, 00:26 AM
#72
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Tiger Ace is fine, sorry.
There was a time when it was stupidly OP, that time is passed.
Purists don't like the doctrine because troop training breaks what they view as a fundamental law of the game; but the Tiger Ace itsef? No problem
I really don't think so. The TA has a range basically equivalent to American TD's which means you have to put them at risk to even hit it. And with the stun shot it can kill the Jackson every time if the second shot is the stun shot since the Jackson cannot retreat before the 3rd. All other American AT is too weak to scare it. Also don't forget the instant reload glitch that makes it fire 2 shots extremely quickly.
Against Soviets it does what has already been said many times, it allows heavy tank pressure all game and a late game tiger to guarantee the win for 0 fuel!
20 Jan 2015, 00:32 AM
#73
Posts: 4928
Just got rolled by TA last night so I'm feeling pretty bitter about it right now.
Does anybody have a list of differences between TA and normal Tiger? I'm interested in the specifics.
The Tiger Ace is a mix of special attributes and standard Tiger veterancy bonuses.
A Vet 3 Tiger gets the following:
Blitzkrieg ability, +25% range, +20% accuracy, +20% mobility, -20% scatter, -30% reload
In addition, the Tiger Ace also gets:
Target Weak Point, +15 vision (about 40-45% more)
The TA has a range basically equivalent to American TD's which means you have to put them at risk to even hit it. All other American AT is too weak to scare it.
Actually TA Range is 50, the Jackson's range is 60. It's trickly, but the Jackson does outrange it. Defensively, it is no difference from a Tiger Tank. They both have 1080 health and 300 armour. If you feel the Jackson can't penetrate the Tiger Ace, that's a problem with the Jackson and will apply to the it's performance against the Tiger Tank as well.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
20 Jan 2015, 00:40 AM
#74
Posts: 4928
-snip-
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
20 Jan 2015, 00:47 AM
#75
2 
Posts: 2181
The Tiger Ace is a mix of special attributes and standard Tiger veterancy bonuses.
A Vet 3 Tiger gets the following:
Blitzkrieg ability, +25% range, +20% accuracy, +20% mobility, -20% scatter, -30% reload
In addition, the Tiger Ace also gets:
Target Weak Point, +15 vision (about 40-45% more)
Actually TA Range is 50, the Jackson's range is 60. It's trickly, but the Jackson does outrange it. Defensively, it is no difference from a Tiger Tank. They both have 1080 health and 300 armour. If you feel the Jackson can't penetrate the Tiger Ace, that's a problem with the Jackson and will apply to the it's performance against the Tiger Tank as well.
Actually when they changed the HP from the tiger to 1040 they left the tiger ace at 1280. 240 hp makes a lot of difference
20 Jan 2015, 01:03 AM
#76
Posts: 1026
The Tiger Ace is a mix of special attributes and standard Tiger veterancy bonuses.
A Vet 3 Tiger gets the following:
Blitzkrieg ability, +25% range, +20% accuracy, +20% mobility, -20% scatter, -30% reload
In addition, the Tiger Ace also gets:
Target Weak Point, +15 vision (about 40-45% more)
Ugh, no wonder we were having so much trouble. It kept rolling up to our lines at the exact wrong moment when one of my teammate's Jacksons was getting stuck on a piece of geometry (Vaux farmlands = our most hated map) or something and would be able to get a kill before our tanks could respond in force then reverse out of there. Smoke ability saved their life 200 billion times as the couple of seconds between noticing it, giving the attack ground order and the shells landing was just enough time to scoot away.
I know the doc isn't necessarily OP but holy shit that was so frustrating.
20 Jan 2015, 01:39 AM
#77
Posts: 4928
Actually when they changed the HP from the tiger to 1040 they left the tiger ace at 1280. 240 hp makes a lot of difference
I forgot about that, it is another bonus it has. Regardless the problem isn't the unit, but the method of deployment and the penalties for it as well as the overall design of Heavy Tanks in general.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
20 Jan 2015, 02:38 AM
#78
Posts: 1026
If they couldn't just have an endless stream of mediums as fuel sinks prior to getting out the TA it would be a lot fairer, methinks. I'm not sure why they decided on such a peculiar method for costing the Tiger Ace - just being different for its own sake.
20 Jan 2015, 03:16 AM
#79
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
Wrong thread
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
20 Jan 2015, 03:18 AM
#80
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
IRC when it first came out it was free and stopped all resource income for as long as it was alive
Now it has a front loaded MP only cost, and reduces income afterwards
Now it has a front loaded MP only cost, and reduces income afterwards
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
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