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Obersoldaten's name change.

28 Nov 2014, 21:35 PM
#61
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 19:58 PMDucati
Whats in a name? Would an obersoldaten by any other name slaughter squads as swiftly?


I wouldnt know, but the name "Guards" implies to be a weapons piñata.

But seriously, you might as well rename everything so their name dictates their usefulness and purpose.
28 Nov 2014, 22:03 PM
#62
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

The last thing coh 2 needs to be is a haven for nazi sympathetic individuals who find it confusing, that an organization such as the SS does not deserve a place of honour. There is a reason hurlers bunker is gone, many military marches even if not written by the regime have remained silent. If you can't handle it I strongly recommend a client side mod so you can have your swastika banners waving on your menu screen and SS unit markings, thankfully I doubt Duffy needed to read any books to realize this info and I wish you luck with any change. Honourrguard smells of the leibstandarte, nothing to be honoured there.

Two things, rename thread to not sound as if it's even being considered by relic, and two how about a name that reflects the criminal nature of the organization. This thread is one of a couple recently that trouble me in the sense that some misguided folks think the SS were honourable, when chief players in the single largest racial hatred motivated and planned mass murder in human history. If you don't have the imagination to connect the reference of SS with obers as is, I recommend a liberation of Aushwitz map for 1v1, as that would be true representation. Funny how relic were kind enough to omit that from the campaign as the SS fled their crime, so whining about a name makes you pretty ungrateful.


Did you even read the OP at all? Honor Guard was the units original name before it was changed for an unknown reason. Honor Guard is still referenced in the game in several ways, Obersoldaten isn't. I think in your ranting anger you missed that part. Virtually nothing you said was relevant or on-topic. The thread isn't even about a future name change, it's about one that already happened, with a poll asking which one people prefer. Even though the discussion has turned to suggested names instead, conversations evolve, I'm not gonna shoot it down. But you on the other hand, need to calm down.
28 Nov 2014, 22:17 PM
#63
avatar of CasTroy

Posts: 559

Call them Sturmgrenadiers or Sturmfüsiliers or Sturmjaeger... would fit the Sturm Officer.

Anyway this will never happen.
28 Nov 2014, 22:21 PM
#64
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

If I were to put a name to the Obersoldaten, it would be Waffen SS, Einsatzgruppen. Now for obvious reasons that can't be marketed in Germany so I guess we're just gonna have to suck it up and not get all butthurt over a computer game's unit name.
28 Nov 2014, 22:36 PM
#65
avatar of CasTroy

Posts: 559

No... everything related to SS, Waffen SS, SD, SA ect. implies to much blood on the hands, fanatism, torture, anger, pain and death.

The Wehrmacht was not much better, but I prefer the lesser evil.
28 Nov 2014, 22:45 PM
#66
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 22:36 PMCasTroy
No... everything related to SS, Waffen SS, SD, SA ect. implies to much blood on the hands, fanatism, torture, anger, pain and death.

The Wehrmacht was not much better, but I prefer the lesser evil.



Because the Soviet Red Army and the NKVD were so much better amiryte?
28 Nov 2014, 22:51 PM
#67
avatar of Romeo
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Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

Whether or not something is in the game has nothing to do with how bloody its history is and everything to do with what is banned in what countries and therefore unable to be sold there.
28 Nov 2014, 22:52 PM
#68
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

Obers nees to be removed from this game
28 Nov 2014, 22:57 PM
#69
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 22:51 PMRomeo
Whether or not something is in the game has nothing to do with how bloody its history is and everything to do with what is banned in what countries and therefore unable to be sold there.



You don't need to tell me this, in fact I said the exact same thing in my post. "We cannot call them Waffen SS or Einsatzgruppen for obvious reasons"

It's frustrating as hell when people say stuff like this when they don't even read what has been said to begin with.



Also concerning comments that "Obersoldaten need to be removed" I think that's just crap man. They can be removed as soon as Shocktroops and Americans with double BAR's and Double M1919's are removed.


Hell Paratroopers with double M1919's and some vet are even MORE deadly than Obersoldaten, (Except maybe a Vet-5 Obersoldaten squad.)
28 Nov 2014, 23:56 PM
#70
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 1225

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 22:21 PMSierra
If I were to put a name to the Obersoldaten, it would be Waffen SS, Einsatzgruppen. Now for obvious reasons that can't be marketed in Germany so I guess we're just gonna have to suck it up and not get all butthurt over a computer game's unit name.

Jesus, some horrible nonsense in this thread, but this suggestion probably takes the cake. First off, Einsatzgruppen were largely recruited from the SD, the Sipo, and other police formations,
and their main task was quite simply to weed out and murder "undesirables", Jews, and any elements considered politically unreliable in general. They did not usually have a combat role, and they were not a military elite by any stretch of the imagination.

As to suggestions, "Stoßtrupp" designated a group of usually especially trained and handpicked men assembled for infanteristic assaults, coups de main, etc., and does not carry any ideological baggage. To a German speaker, especially with a military background, "Obersoldaten" sounds absurd plain and simple.
29 Nov 2014, 00:16 AM
#71
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 545



Did you even read the OP at all? Honor Guard was the units original name before it was changed for an unknown reason. Honor Guard is still referenced in the game in several ways, Obersoldaten isn't. I think in your ranting anger you missed that part. Virtually nothing you said was relevant or on-topic. The thread isn't even about a future name change, it's about one that already happened, with a poll asking which one people prefer. Even though the discussion has turned to suggested names instead, conversations evolve, I'm not gonna shoot it down. But you on the other hand, need to calm down.


Calm down? i think you misunderstand anger for structure, do you wonder why calling a unit that is very clearly close to the SS by the name Honorguard might spawn negative reaction? The map reference is an opinion that if people want this "Honorguard" my opinion is perhaps the campaign should have depicted what this fabulous group was capable of (including subdivisions of the organization). It is more than likely the change was made in the first place for how easily you could confuse a very SS looking unit called honourguard as being the Lebstandarte. Again we will see who has winning opinion when they change the name back (don't see that happening). When your discussing an organization that is considered criminal by its nation of origin, I think the word Honor is muted point, as it well should be. I think its pathetic to hear people making arguments that the SS death squads were in another wing of the unit so its ok. If you dont like my opinion that's absolutely fine, but this unit was not honorable hence obers current name.
29 Nov 2014, 00:34 AM
#74
avatar of van Voort
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Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

I don't think that Honor Guards would be a good idea because there were no guard troops like in the Red Army. There were Elite troops but no guards because the word's origin (at least in German) refers to the monarchies. Guard troops were mostly troops that protected the Zar in the Russian tsardom and were introduced again by Stalin to rise the army's moral. For this the guards aren't called 'Wächter', which would be the direct translation, but 'Garde'which rather means 'royal protector'.
The only German company in WW2 which would somehow 'deserve' the name 'guards' was the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler. But they did some of the most cruel war crimes in the whole war..


Technically the SS itself is a "Guards Unit", as it started out, and is named after, a Security Force for meetings /trivia

However the Leibstandarte would count as such after the SS grew, because those are literally "Lifeguards"

Putting them in as such would be somewhat problematic however as you've noted

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Großdeutschland would count as a ceremonial/guard unit, but they would already be in (That's where Panzerfuisiliers come from)

++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Führerbegleitbrigade is also, in origin, a guard unit

+++++++++++++++++++++++

However none of those match, so frankly I don't think either option is appropriate

29 Nov 2014, 00:44 AM
#75
avatar of van Voort
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 12:48 PMFanatic

Honour Guard is bad idea either. There was no such formation in the Wehrmacht. It sounds like a parade formation, not like elite solidiers or veterans. Besides Guards is alread taken.



Großdeutschland

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 13:21 PMRupert
Obersoldaten is pretty bad but Honor Guard is worse.

Do you even know what Honor Guards do? They're not combat troops at all.



I'm probably being British about this, but British ceremonial/guard units get used for combat duties as well

Operation Goodwood saw Guards Armoured Division and the Leibstandarte on opposite sides
29 Nov 2014, 00:50 AM
#76
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

It has been a little "exciting" -one post invised with a follow-up - this is a tricky subject, people - please treat it with a degree of maturity. :)
29 Nov 2014, 16:40 PM
#77
avatar of herr anfsim

Posts: 247



Großdeutschland



I'm probably being British about this, but British ceremonial/guard units get used for combat duties as well

Operation Goodwood saw Guards Armoured Division and the Leibstandarte on opposite sides


The Royal guards of all the scandinavian countries are regulai rinfantry battalions as well, so youre not alone :)
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