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Obersoldaten's name change.

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Which name do you prefer?
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59%
41%
Total votes: 75
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
Mr. Someguy
28 Nov 2014, 11:03 AM
#1
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Posts: 4928

The name "Obersoldaten" has proved a controversial name since they were first revealed. Some claim it's not a real word, others say has no meaning, or a nonsense meaning (Dane criticized it as meaning "Over Soldiers"). A friend of mine said it meant "High Rank Soldier". But this wasn't the original name.

Evidence in the game's files and speech point to them originally being called "Honor Guards" instead. Their rifle is named Kar-98k Rifle (Honor Guard) in the game's files, and Volksgrenadiers refer to them as "the Honor Guard" in their idle speech (they also make it clear they do not like them). Moreover, no unit in the game refer to them as Obersoldaten, even Obers themselves only have generic voice lines when activated (Achtung! Be ready!).

Personally, I think Honor Guard was a much better name. I suspect it may have been changed because it may have been implicative of the SS Honor Guard. Seeing as the unit was is obviously inspired by the SS, someone may have decided they were getting too close to real-life with the name and had it changed.

If anyone knows more about the change, perhaps they could share it? :)

(added a poll because I can)
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
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somenbjorn
28 Nov 2014, 11:09 AM
#2
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Posts: 923

Better than Obersoldaten thats for sure. Still not satisfied though.

Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
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JohnnyB
28 Nov 2014, 11:13 AM
#3
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Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

Well actualy they should be called Waffen SS but this can't be. "Obersoldaten" seems stupid for me to so I guess I have nothing against this "Honor Guard" name.

...I would even name them Ubersoldaten...like soldiers on steroids... :D
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Cabreza
28 Nov 2014, 11:14 AM
#4
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

How about just calling them "Veteran Grenadiers" or "Ostfront Veterans?" Even "Elite Grenadiers" would be an improvement.
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Apollo
28 Nov 2014, 11:16 AM
#5
avatar of Apollo

Posts: 37

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 11:14 AMCabreza
How about just calling them "Veteran Grenadiers" or "Ostfront Veterans?"


That's a pretty good idea. Let's call them just "Veterans".
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Schewi
28 Nov 2014, 11:17 AM
#6
avatar of Schewi

Posts: 175

"Ober" just means that the grade of the soldier is higher than of others. It also refers to the word "oben" which freely translated means in englisch "above". A german military rank for example is "Oberst".
It is a legit german word. I do not have a problem with it.
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Mr. Someguy
28 Nov 2014, 11:18 AM
#7
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Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 11:09 AMsomenbjorn
Better than Obersoldaten thats for sure. Still not satisfied though.

You just reminded me that I forgot the 'Other' option :facepalm:

Can't edit polls though, maybe a mod could add it and reset the poll? Is that even possible?
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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Australian Magic
28 Nov 2014, 11:20 AM
#8
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Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Terminators? :huhsign:
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l4hti
28 Nov 2014, 11:20 AM
#9
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Posts: 476

Sturmgrenadiers
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Mr. Someguy
28 Nov 2014, 11:24 AM
#10
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Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 11:14 AMCabreza
How about just calling them "Veteran Grenadiers" or "Ostfront Veterans?" Even "Elite Grenadiers" would be an improvement.


I would keep the word "Grenadiers" out of it, since "Veteran Grenadiers" could cause confusion as to whether you mean Vet 3 Grenadiers, or "Veteran Grenadiers". Simply "Veterans" or another term like "Veteran Schutzen" / "Elite Schutzen" would suffice. (Schutzen was what Panzergrenadiers were called pre-1942)
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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Highfiveeeee
28 Nov 2014, 11:25 AM
#11
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Posts: 1740

I don't think that Honor Guards would be a good idea because there were no guard troops like in the Red Army. There were Elite troops but no guards because the word's origin (at least in German) refers to the monarchies. Guard troops were mostly troops that protected the Zar in the Russian tsardom and were introduced again by Stalin to rise the army's moral. For this the guards aren't called 'Wächter', which would be the direct translation, but 'Garde'which rather means 'royal protector'.
The only German company in WW2 which would somehow 'deserve' the name 'guards' was the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler. But they did some of the most cruel war crimes in the whole war.

I personally would prefer 'Elitesoldaten' or 'Elitetruppen'.

But why am I writing this? Relic will never change the name anyways so screw it, lol.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'

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Spielführer
28 Nov 2014, 11:25 AM
#12
avatar of Spielführer

Posts: 320

Obersoldaten is plain bullshit to be honest.
You got it in ranks. So Feldwebel (Seargent) and than Oberfeldwebel (Staff Seargent) just meaning he is ober (above) the normal Seargent.

A good name would be Sturmgrenadier (Assault Grenadiers) or Stoßtrupp (Shock Troops)

Everything is better than Obersoldaten. Quinn Duffy should have read more history books...
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Cabreza
28 Nov 2014, 11:28 AM
#13
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Posts: 656

If I recall "Honor Guard" was the name originally given to the unit. During the WFA beta relic decided they didn't like the name and changed it to "Obersoldaten" after community input.

This also explains why they still have that lingering improved accuracy vs retreating units. They were supposed to punish "dishonorable" enemy units for retreating.
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Sturmführer Stalin
28 Nov 2014, 11:33 AM
#14
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Donator 22

Posts: 65

"Obersoldaten" is actually a pretty good name for them! Im german "ober" is basically a word for something elite or better/best. Also these guys are, in my understanding, the equivalent to ss troopers that are shifted from the eastern to the westernfront, so this may also refer to the masterrace(herrenrasse or obere rasse). As a german I think the name is in a way ok because its not really connecting to the ss but honor guard does. And I dont want these sick bastards to be in this beautiful game! SS referals in the game would be too packed with ideology. Coh doesnt need this. :)
http://www.twitch.tv/sturmfuehrerstalin
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JohnnyB
28 Nov 2014, 11:33 AM
#15
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Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

The name "Obersoldaten" is simply silly. They should change it and they have hundreds of other options.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Sierra
28 Nov 2014, 11:33 AM
#16
avatar of Sierra

Posts: 432

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 11:28 AMCabreza
This also explains why they still have that lingering improved accuracy vs retreating units. They were supposed to punish "dishonorable" enemy units for retreating.



I like that idea, too bad that Relic mostly removed it.
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Sturmführer Stalin
28 Nov 2014, 11:34 AM
#17
avatar of Sturmführer Stalin
Donator 22

Posts: 65

"Obersoldaten" is actually a pretty good name for them! In german "ober" is basically a word for something elite or better/best. Also these guys are, in my understanding, the equivalent to ss troopers that are shifted from the eastern to the westernfront, so this may also refer to the masterrace(herrenrasse or obere rasse). As a german I think the name is in a way ok because its not really connecting to the ss but honor guard does. And I dont want these sick bastards to be in this beautiful game! SS referals in the game would be too packed with ideology. Coh doesnt need this. :)
http://www.twitch.tv/sturmfuehrerstalin
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Sturmführer Stalin
28 Nov 2014, 11:35 AM
#18
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Donator 22

Posts: 65

Ups doubble post! Sorry!! :D
http://www.twitch.tv/sturmfuehrerstalin
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Cabreza
28 Nov 2014, 11:37 AM
#19
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Posts: 656

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2014, 11:24 AMMr. Someguy


I would keep the word "Grenadiers" out of it, since "Veteran Grenadiers" could cause confusion as to whether you mean Vet 3 Grenadiers, or "Veteran Grenadiers". Simply "Veterans" or another term like "Veteran Schutzen" / "Elite Schutzen" would suffice. (Schutzen was what Panzergrenadiers were called pre-1942)


Good point. I'm partial to Ostfront Veterans myself. Any soldier who could survive a couple years of front line combat on the ostfront was a certified badass or the luckiest sob around.
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BabaRoga
28 Nov 2014, 11:50 AM
#20
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Posts: 829

My understanding is that Obersoldaten is in non-official military terms refered to privileged units. (veteran units/battalions/brigades/etc)

Its somewhat derogatory term used by normal troops to describe highly decorated, veteran troops who were full of themselves.
Got best equipment, food, went to Paris for leave, etc. Something normal soldiers could only dream off.

Obesoldaten = slang for 'over/higher than other soldiers'

Best comparison in English would be something like 'teachers pet' or 'Mamma's boy' as it cannot be translated (slang)

Not sure if this is accurate as it comes from my German friends Grandfather (who wasn't a soldier in WW2)

In COH2 it's probably supposed to be viewed as Veteran troops
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