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russian armor

PPSH upgrade for conscripts is a downgrade

25 Nov 2014, 23:34 PM
#21
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

They have almost double DPS at far range. In comparison, a bit better than a Kar. Nevertheless theres little point on upgrading them unless you float munition, you want "cool" G43 and you use nonstop interrogation.


My mistake, I only checked 0-20 since that's where PG's are relevent.
26 Nov 2014, 00:13 AM
#22
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2014, 22:24 PMJadame!
Replace ppsh with svt and make those svt actually useful at middle range.

Fixed?


they should give cons the automatic svt like the ones in red orchestra 2. avt, i think it is called.

that would be glorious
26 Nov 2014, 02:40 AM
#23
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2014, 00:13 AMpigsoup
they should give cons the automatic svt like the ones in red orchestra 2. avt, i think it is called.

that would be glorious

AVT's were actually really crap, they were discontinued soon after introduction, and the troops that still had them were ordered to only use them in semi-automatic mode. They sucked because the recoil made them impossible to aim, and the stresses of automatic fire often broke the rifles. What can ya' expect from a semi-automatic design converted to fully automatic with no other alterations :P
26 Nov 2014, 02:48 AM
#24
avatar of FappingFrog

Posts: 135

This is another issue that needs to be addressed, its 40 muns for a less effective squad lol.
26 Nov 2014, 02:53 AM
#25
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2


AVT's were actually really crap, they were discontinued soon after introduction, and the troops that still had them were ordered to only use them in semi-automatic mode. They sucked because the recoil made them impossible to aim, and the stresses of automatic fire often broke the rifles. What can ya' expect from a semi-automatic design converted to fully automatic with no other alterations :P


that's a shame. i would love to hear full rifle rounds shot automatically though. in coh2. it would be like soviet's assault rifle.
26 Nov 2014, 03:26 AM
#26
avatar of J1N6666

Posts: 306

How many PPSHs does the upgrade give?
nee
26 Nov 2014, 03:27 AM
#27
avatar of nee

Posts: 1216

This is another issue that needs to be addressed, its 40 muns for a less effective squad lol.
Way I see it, it's 40 mins to turn a long range squad into a short range squad.

Give Conscripts more buffs and you might as well replace it with Shock Troops.
26 Nov 2014, 03:45 AM
#28
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2014, 02:53 AMpigsoup
that's a shame. i would love to hear full rifle rounds shot automatically though. in coh2. it would be like soviet's assault rifle.

The closest thing you'll find of a Russian Assault Rifle in WW2 is the Fedorov Avtomat, a carbine-sized automatic rifle using the 6.5x50mm Arisaka. Not technically an Assault Rifle, it was actually designed and used as an automatic rifle. Very small numbers were made and I'm not sure if it was used against Germany though.


jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2014, 03:26 AMJ1N6666
How many PPSHs does the upgrade give?

3
26 Nov 2014, 04:08 AM
#29
avatar of newvan

Posts: 354

Actually there wasn't AVT rifle in USSR army (I never heard about this model), there was SVT-38 (40) (Tokarev Self-loading Rifle) and AVS-36 (Simonov Automatic Rifle). AVS was complicated in production and difficult to use, had some other issues, but generally was better then SVT.

I was wrong. Found some info about "AVT", it was rare modification of SVT.
26 Nov 2014, 04:37 AM
#30
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2014, 04:08 AMnewvan
Actually there wasn't AVT rifle in USSR army (I never heard about this model), there was SVT-38 (40) (Tokarev Self-loading Rifle) and AVS-36 (Simonov Automatic Rifle). AVS was complicated in production and difficult to use, had some other issues, but generally was better then SVT.


The AVS was a different weapon. The AVT-40 was just an SVT-40 with an automatic fire option.




1:34 for AVT, 2:19 for mag-dump.
26 Nov 2014, 05:10 AM
#31
avatar of DakkaIsMagic

Posts: 403

I just don't like the idea of forcing a unit that already takes more fire than others into a close combat unit. That rec acc % really messes with them, I avoid PPSHs at all cost (As crazy as that sounds).


Hopeing for a Russian commander that allows for one DP-28 upgrade per squad.
26 Nov 2014, 05:19 AM
#32
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
OKW get inf-stg-44's

Yet sov cant get avt-40 :(
26 Nov 2014, 06:30 AM
#33
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

OKW get inf-stg-44's

Yet sov cant get avt-40 :(


Well historically, Stavka determined the AVT's combat performance was "less than that of a submachine gun" (their actual words, full quote is When converting a semi-automatic rifle to fully automatic by only modifying the trigger group, its combat usefulness decreases to less than that of a submachine gun. ). So unless you want a gun that's worst than the PPSh's. Better off with PPSh's :P

Even if they ignored the accuracy / recoil problem, it's still a rifle that spits out it's 10-round magazine in about a second, so taking into account the SVT's reload time of 2-3.5, you'll have them spend more time reloading than shooting!
26 Nov 2014, 08:18 AM
#34
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

I think PPSH41 con upgrade is fine. It's not something you should get on every map though.
26 Nov 2014, 10:46 AM
#35
avatar of Gneckes

Posts: 196

I just don't like the idea of forcing a unit that already takes more fire than others into a close combat unit. That rec acc % really messes with them, I avoid PPSHs at all cost (As crazy as that sounds).


Hopeing for a Russian commander that allows for one DP-28 upgrade per squad.


Conscripts are already a mid-to-short-range unit, that's where they beat Grenadiers. If anything, PPShs make them more deadly at knife fights.
Also, considering that I've occasionally seen stock Conscripts beat LMG Grenadiers, I'd say they're fine.
26 Nov 2014, 17:47 PM
#36
avatar of ATCF
Donator 33

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2014, 10:46 AMGneckes


Conscripts are already a mid-to-short-range unit, that's where they beat Grenadiers. If anything, PPShs make them more deadly at knife fights.
Also, considering that I've occasionally seen stock Conscripts beat LMG Grenadiers, I'd say they're fine.



Yep vet 3 vanilla cons seem to get AIMBOTS occasionally, and beat even LMG grens and shooting down retreating units, but sometimes they cant hit anything
26 Nov 2014, 18:53 PM
#37
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

LMG Grens don't actually have very high DPS at close range. At 10 meters it's only 3 DPS higher than a Kar Gren squad. PPSh Cons at the same range have over 10 DPS higher than LMG Grens at the same range.
26 Nov 2014, 19:11 PM
#38
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

Cons can beat LMG grens if they get really close
26 Nov 2014, 22:01 PM
#39
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692



Well historically, Stavka determined the AVT's combat performance was "less than that of a submachine gun" (their actual words, full quote is When converting a semi-automatic rifle to fully automatic by only modifying the trigger group, its combat usefulness decreases to less than that of a submachine gun. ). So unless you want a gun that's worst than the PPSh's. Better off with PPSh's :P


Reality has no basis here. Fallschirms in CoH 2 use their FG42s in full auto, even though it was completely unusable in that setting
27 Nov 2014, 04:39 AM
#40
avatar of DakkaIsMagic

Posts: 403

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2014, 22:01 PMArclyte


Reality has no basis here. Fallschirms in CoH 2 use their FG42s in full auto, even though it was completely unusable in that setting


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