Relic, please adjust Vet gain on the Stuka zu Fuss.

For most team weapons and artillery pieces, their alternate fire modes are locked by Vet-1 and don't always cost so much in munitions. But this is not the case with the Stuka zu Fuss, instead it's alternate fire mode of Incendiary Rocket Barrage is locked behind a Vet-4 rank that it may never see in an entire game, and still costs a whopping 100 munitions, which is already difficult enough to achieve for a hard pressed OKW player. (Think lots of grenades and panzershreks and mines)


I think that for the alternate fire mode to be justifiably locked behind Vet-4, that it should be a bit more accessible and attainable than it is currently.


Furthermore I daresay that it opens up far more options for the OKW player to eliminate blobs of Allied infantry and artillery/ATG's as well as garrisoned units, which currently they are sorely lacking.

So please take this into consideration as currently I would go as far as to assume that most OKW players don't even know that there is an Incendiary Barrage option due to how exceedingly rare it is that the Stuka zu Fuss would ever reach Vet-2 or Vet-3, let alone Vet-4.

Just like any expensive anti-infantry vehicles they won't gain a lot of experience from killing infantry. If you want to farm experience, you have to attack vehicles with them, even if they are not very good at that role, but you will notice how quickly you gain experience then. It is just a flaw in game design in my opinion. I already suggested in the past that they should make units gain experience based on their intended unit role.

You won't find any support for this thread by the way anyway because here everyone will flip out just hearing anything that doesn't involve nerfing Stuka to the ground.

Can we fix panzerwerfer first?

Can we fix panzerwerfer first?

This. Pzwerfer is not that bad, but neither good. I would like it to be at least "ok".

This. Pzwerfer is not that bad, but neither good. I would like it to be at least "ok".

When comparing rocket artillery pwerfer is hands down the worst, with one of the highest costs.

Please don't, this is already so good.
Anything that 'buffs' it a little should be outruled.

you can try to use elite troop Training 6-7 times

With recent ninja changes that randomize or spread out the rockets more along the lines and the recent changes to buildings that make it so the Stuka cannot one-shot them. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask Relic for its veterancy to be looked at so that a reasonable area-denial and anti-blob tool can possibly be attained.

As it stands, it is barely available. Most blob suppressing and killing tools end up getting nerfed into the ground. Also currently in most 1v1 and 2v2 games I've seen, Axis almost always end up getting steamrolled by American BAR-Rifleblobs and Hordes of Conscripts- Penals, and Shocktroopers.

Since the incendiary barrage as a separate CD from the main ability = No.

Come on guys, this is one of the most sensible post been made by Sierra.

You won't find any support for this thread by the way anyway because here everyone will flip out just hearing anything that doesn't involve nerfing Stuka to the ground.

A guy called Cruzz, who made a mod which most praised:

"Reduced vet requirements for Stuka zu Fuss, LEIG, Sturmtiger by 20% because these units pretty much always fail to reach more than vet2 even in very long games."

The unit needs other nerf on different areas, but adjusting veterancy is something needed (on several other units aswell).

The vet ability is locked in vet 4 because it is really effective and doesn't share cooldown with it's main barrage.

This is the original vet:

SDKZF251 Wurfrahmen 40
-10% ability recharge
-30% ability recharge
+30% range
Unlocks napalm barrage ability
+30% speed +30% rotation speed +30% ac/de-celeration

And i would rather see it

SDKZF251 Wurfrahmen 40
-10% ability recharge
Unlocks napalm barrage ability (Shares cooldown with main barrage)
-30% ability recharge
+30% range +30% speed +30% rotation speed +30% ac/de-celeration
Napalm barrage no longer shares cooldown with main barrage

Stuka is in a shitty place for vet, because it can't be used very often. Napalm ability should be vet1 like everything else, not vet4. I agree this is one of the most sensible Sierra posts ever.

Kappatch mod did that.

thanks Cruzz.

I think the stuka needs a health reduction. I believe that would make it vet up faster if my understanding of the vet system is correct. If not, it should have its vet requirements reduced and changed so it gets the incendiary ability earlier.

I have honestly never seen it in-game, only on replays and streams.

Nice post Sierra!

Nope!

If anything. stuka needs an HP nerf

I think the stuka needs a health reduction. I believe that would make it vet up faster if my understanding of the vet system is correct. If not, it should have its vet requirements reduced and changed so it gets the incendiary ability earlier.

I have honestly never seen it in-game, only on replays and streams.

Nice post Sierra!

I don't necessarily see how reducing the unit's HP would increase its vet gain. The problem is that it doesn't gain a lot of exp from killing infantry and team weapons and its exp-milestones are set very high.

As far as I've noticed, having units attack vehicles seems to be the exp fast-track. Hell I had a 222 kill two M3 scout cars with penals the other day and it got instant Vet-2.


Also thanks!

Again, I could be wrong but I think vet gained is proportional to the ratio of damage inflicted to the inflicting unit's health. Regardless of implementation details, both changes would be good.

Don't forget to vote

Again, I could be wrong but I think vet gained is proportional to the ratio of damage inflicted to the inflicting unit's health. Regardless of implementation details, both changes would be good.

Don't forget to vote

If that were true, then wouldn't snipers earn insane vet from killing Shocktroops or Paratroopers? Just a thought in any case.


I looked at your page there, I don't necessarily agree with changing the Stuka's barrage pattern into a circle. It was designed with the intent of a creeping barrage in this game, and I don't see any sense in changing it now. Especially since all strafing runs were changed to be comparable.



Besides that, as I said in an earlier post, it feels like the Stuka was ninja nerfed for its barrage to be less exact along its line and more spread out.


As for its HP, I don't really see what the problem with its HP is, it's an armored halftrack right? It only takes 2-3 shots of a Bazooka or two shots of a tank to kill it. Or One-shot from an ISU-152 right?

In example, it takes at least 2-4 barrages from a Luchs to kill a Katyusha IIRC.


I think it is fair considering the very significant manpower and fuel investment OKW player needs to acquire and use such a potent piece of equipment. Though I guess if vet changes are made it could be considered.

I looked at your page there, I don't necessarily agree with changing the Stuka's barrage pattern into a circle. It was designed with the intent of a creeping barrage in this game, and I don't see any sense in changing it now. Especially since all strafing runs were changed to be comparable.

The suggestions are just suggestions. Whether relic or a mod maker chooses to incorporate zero, one, or more is up to them. They are not intended to all be implemented simultaneously, they just offer multiple avenues of thought. For example a different barrage shape might be chosen instead of a health reduction, for whatever reason.

As for its HP, I don't really see what the problem with its HP is, it's an armored halftrack right? It only takes 2-3 shots of a Bazooka or two shots of a tank to kill it. Or One-shot from an ISU-152 right?

I think it is fair considering the very significant manpower and fuel investment OKW player needs to acquire and use such a potent piece of equipment. Though I guess if vet changes are made it could be considered.

The priest has similar durability to the stuka but horrible mobility. Its counterparts the panzerwerfer and katyusha by comparison are much more fragile. I would certainly not want to see either of those units receive a health buff since it's very important for it to be possible to hunt and destroy them with light or medium AT to mitigate the immense threat they pose. Well, the katyusha anyway. So it makes more sense to reduce the stuka's health to make a flank with a stuart or T-70 more rewarding for example.

Again, I could be wrong but I think vet gained is proportional to the ratio of damage inflicted to the inflicting unit's health. Regardless of implementation details, both changes would be good.

Don't forget to vote

surely it is proportional to the unit's cost(hence why Shreked Volks vet much faster than shreked PGs) plus a multiplier if damage is inflicted on a veteran unit.