About the B-4

no one is forcing you to place your trucks at the front lines

if u have played 2v2 with okw or vs okw should know what i say.Schwerer Panzer Headquarters its offensive truck the other hand in most 2v2 maps like semosky,crossing woods.... also can hit battle group truck

First, kudos to Somenbjorn for nursing the last part of this thread, and so helping it reach 19 pages.... ........... on a Balance thread! Great!

Second, kudos to all of you who made the thread interesting and - more or less- kept it within bounds

There is not much more to add, so it will be neat to see such an extended thread, hopefully go gracefully go to sleep.......

Jee, just make B4 accumulate veterancy longer.
Блядь, зробіть для Б4 накопичення досвіду довшим.

if u have played 2v2 with okw or vs okw should know what i say.Schwerer Panzer Headquarters its offensive truck the other hand in most 2v2 maps like semosky,crossing woods.... also can hit battle group truck

There are no 'offensive trucks'


IMO if you are putting your flak truck somewhere where it is going to be shooting at things on anything like a regular basis then it is too far foward

In a game yesterday, B4 OS 3 full life panther and 1Jagdpanzer with normal shot. B4 win the game ! clearly a strong art ! ^^

In a game yesterday, B4 OS 3 full life panther and 1Jagdpanzer with normal shot. B4 win the game ! clearly a strong art ! ^^

Your jadgpanzer should be already vetted if B4 is 3vet and 2 vet Jadgpanzer can stand precision strike without mark target or FMR

In a game yesterday, B4 OS 3 full life panther and 1Jagdpanzer with normal shot. B4 win the game ! clearly a strong art ! ^^

You'd think they'd keep the panthers moving after the first one

But yes nobody is saying it is weak, after all seeing the enemies panthers go up in flames is why I love that big thing.


PS. The 19th was the Day of Artillery in the former soviet union, so a late congratulations to fellow B-4 lovers out there!

In a game yesterday, B4 OS 3 full life panther and 1Jagdpanzer with normal shot. B4 win the game ! clearly a strong art ! ^^

If you lost 3 panthers to a B4, than you are doing something wrong. After the first one, you should know there is a B4 and you should keep moving, repair in safe spots.

If you lost 3 panthers to a B4, than you are doing something wrong. After the first one, you should know there is a B4 and you should keep moving, repair in safe spots.

Some maps B4 can base to base more info is needed before you can say "just back out of its range"

In a game yesterday, B4 OS 3 full life panther and 1Jagdpanzer with normal shot. B4 win the game ! clearly a strong art ! ^^

Math says you are wrong unless you aren't telling us something, which wouldn't be unusual on these boards.

Math says you are wrong unless you aren't telling us something, which wouldn't be unusual on these boards.

Take your pick from:

Normal shot + Mark target
Normal shot + For the Motherland
Normal shot + FHQ
Normal shot at vet 3

I noticed two situations where people get owned by the B$:


1. A really lucky RNG shot or good anticipation from the B4 user with the precision shot.
2. Player camps his or her forces in a predictable spot and gets slammed.
3. Player sees B4 shots/gun but does not take the necessary steps to shuffle forces around or counter the B4.

3. Player sees B4 shots/gun but does not take the necessary steps to shuffle forces around or counter the B4.

Its this one, I see it happen all the time.

First shot was direct hit and did not kill the panther but give him some vet.

Then vet 3 so yes it OS tanks even panther.

B4 was in his base (cross the wood). Can't go out of range.

We did't have jagtiger or precision strike. Ofc with that it would have been easier (commander panther for my partner and bunker okw for me)

And yes we should have move more to avoid shoot. But we were not immobile. The player had good reading of our moves. Perhaps some luck also.

I don't say it is OP. But it is not useless.

3. Player sees B4 shots/gun but does not take the necessary steps to shuffle forces around or counter the B4.

This has been posted so many times in this thread by people defending the B-4, and every single time I wondered if the people writing this really believe themselves that any average player can constantly keep his units moving about to avoid getting hit by the B-4. I really can't read this argument anymore.

I consider myself a reasonably skilled, at least average player and I find it completely impossible to keep moving about all potential B-4 target all the time. And even if I would be able to do that, it would render my units combat ineffective, as your troops can't really fight effectively without remaining stationary. In reality, if you don't have the doctrinal set-up to deal with a B-4 quickly, it is only a matter of time until you'll lose your army and base buildings.

And all of this doesn't even tackle the subject of base buildings, recently retreated units (which are not even under your control directly after arriving at the base for several seconds) and the close to immobile OKW heavies getting wiped by the B-4, which even someone excelling at micromanaging his/her units couldn't do anything against as long as he/she doesn't have an off-map artillery to deal with it.

Having recently played mostly 2vs2 games with a friend, I honestly think that 4 out of 5 games in which the B-4 made an appearance, it was the deciding factor of the game and pretty much always ended in our defeat. It is already quite questionable that any single unit should have such an impact, and most certainly not reasonable that this unit should have that impact while comfortably sitting in the base on the other side of the map, with the entire army infront of it to shield it - and that potentially against an OKW team that doesn't even have access to off-maps to counter it, since none of the faction's default commanders have it.

Reading some of the comments here, I'm wondering whether I'm really just having vastly different experiences with this unit than some of you (which, of course, is within the realm of the possible), or whether you're just coming up with arguments you should know are not reasonable for the average player to justify an overpowered unit.

You don't have to keep all units moving at all times. You need to keep them seperate enough not to become an inviting target.
And yes tanks should be kept moving around, the long fire animation and long travel time means you about the same warning time as when facing Katyusha or Stuka zu Fuss, and only a direct hit (or really close) will do any considerable damage.

Yes one single unit having a huge impact is kinda a general problem of the game. But it only does so if you allow it to, this is the ultimate end to blobbing and turtleing.

However (as I pointed out earlier in this thread) its slow rotation, long reload and lack of accuracy (lest you build no mines, hold 2 munipoints and play heavy t-2) you can negate its effect. Even though you might not see the opportunity to fully destroy it.
As for wrecking it, what gets me most of the time is any type of quick moving AFV, like a P-4, P-2 or Puma.

I consider myself a reasonably skilled, at least average player and I find it completely impossible to keep moving about all potential B-4 target all the time. And even if I would be able to do that, it would render my units combat ineffective, as your troops can't really fight effectively without remaining stationary. In reality, if you don't have the doctrinal set-up to deal with a B-4 quickly, it is only a matter of time until you'll lose your army and base buildings.

Potential B-4 target is usually your blob or your tiger. Nothing more. If I see OKW blobber I'm forcing him to retreat and then precision strike on med truck.
Whose fault was that? Mine with B4 that I wiped 50% army or his? His fault because he was moving in one blob and retreat whole blob at the same time - knowing that there is B4.

If you keep your units at reasonable distance, B4 won't hit you. Your enemy will wait for something juicy rather than 1 squad.
Moving your Tiger is not a big issue. It's cool just to show enemy your front armor and take shots, right? Well, feel like USF feel when microing Jacksons.
Also plane is obvius sign that B4 is coming.I love when my enemy sees recon plane right over his Jagdtiger and still not moving it

And all of this doesn't even tackle the subject of base buildings, recently retreated units (which are not even under your control directly after arriving at the base for several seconds) and the close to immobile OKW heavies getting wiped by the B-4, which even someone excelling at micromanaging his/her units couldn't do anything against as long as he/she doesn't have an off-map artillery to deal with it.

Stuka zu fuss, falsch, massive flank or sneaky flank and decrew vetted B4.
Base bulding are unreachable for B4 - only on certan maps like Crossing Woods.
Simple solution, veto such maps.
If B4 can reach your base on Rails and Metal, it means it was built really far from the base.

Having recently played mostly 2vs2 games with a friend, I honestly think that 4 out of 5 games in which the B-4 made an appearance, it was the deciding factor of the game and pretty much always ended in our defeat. It is already quite questionable that any single unit should have such an impact, and most certainly not reasonable that this unit should have that impact while comfortably sitting in the base on the other side of the map, with the entire army infront of it to shield it - and that potentially against an OKW team that doesn't even have access to off-maps to counter it, since none of the faction's default commanders have it.

This is my favourite.
It's impossible for AT Axis team to lose against B4.
One plays as Ostheer with one stuka doctrine and wait to see which doctrine enemy picked up or take Luftwaffe support and feed OKW mate with fuel.

You don't have to keep all units moving at all times. You need to keep them seperate enough not to become an inviting target.
And yes tanks should be kept moving around, the long fire animation and long travel time means you about the same warning time as when facing Katyusha or Stuka zu Fuss, and only a direct hit (or really close) will do any considerable damage.

Every single squad is a valid target if you got such a high chance of wiping it.
Also the frequency of engine damages and the fact that you'll have to stand still to rapair a tank make it impossible to move a vehicle all the time.

Yes one single unit having a huge impact is kinda a general problem of the game. But it only does so if you allow it to, this is the ultimate end to blobbing and turtleing.

However (as I pointed out earlier in this thread) its slow rotation, long reload and lack of accuracy (lest you build no mines, hold 2 munipoints and play heavy t-2) you can negate its effect. Even though you might not see the opportunity to fully destroy it.
As for wrecking it, what gets me most of the time is any type of quick moving AFV, like a P-4, P-2 or Puma.

Speaking entirely from a 2v2 perspective; ammo shortage can easily be avoided with an ammo cache or a teammate that does all the mining. Even without, sacrificing one precision strike for three mines is no big deal.

You suggest a daring push that is more often than not a simple suicide commando with a very questionable chance of success. On maps like Semoski, Minsk or Kahrkov even Moscow, such a thing is close to impossible, if your enemy knows what hes doing.

That leaves us with Stuka+Recon commander which completely denies the B-4.

90 muni for a a single squad isn't worth it. Unless maybe vetted Obers or fallshirms. But for grens or volks, or just new Obers? naah to expensive, I'll wait for a better target or just use ordinary fire against static emplacements (if they are in range.)

Fast moving AFVs are a risky business. So is going for a flank on a Jagd when you are unsure of what is behind it. You have to consider the risk and the reward in all engagements.

I suggest it because in my own experience those get the B-4s just as often as the Stuka strikes does.

You cannot sufficiently cover the B-4 with AT-guns, mines and defences to stop it getting wiped by a large and fast enough flank. Doing so would be wasteful of resources.
So you try to negate that threat by pushing on the enemy and keeping him where I want him to fight. Preferably in my cone of fire.

Plus Stuka isn't a granted counter (unless luftwaffe supply) because the cost of it is so huge, especially considered the need for using tons of muni on your units as axis. (lmg, schreks, riflenades and so on)

Plus Stuka isn't a granted counter (unless luftwaffe supply) because the cost of it is so huge, especially considered the need for using tons of muni on your units as axis. (lmg, schreks, riflenades and so on)

I would say Soviets need more ammo than axis (at least I need).

LMG, Schrecks, riflenade, s-mines, recon, stuka (keep in mind you can convert fuel to muni or drop ammo at point) vs spam molotovs, at nades, Oourah, zis barrages, mines, schocks nades, recon, presicion strike and mother russia.