Russian Double Sniper + Guards

The reinforcement cost could go up to at least 120mp, so you would need to take care of them. Right now they are a no brainer.

The dps advantage the German sniper has, is pretty much there to keep it in business versus mainly 5-6 men weapon crews/ squads. What remains is the better surviabilty of the Russian sniper, making it the better unit.

It's stupid as fuck to play against, but here's some tips;

-222 is your friend. Guards can't be on the entire map at once, and if you manage to drive them off the snipers are wide open.

-By its nature this strategy is compact, cap around him. It's harder to do in 2v2 but at worst go help your teamate a bit and flank the Soviet player.

-Mortar HT basically cannot be countered until he builds a T70/T-34, and by that time you should at least have a PaK. Even if you don't use incendiary barrage, it can still force those snipers to be cautious. Don,t get both a MHT and a 222 however, choose one.

-Tech to T3 and get a P4 ASAP. Not, not an Ostwind, you need P4 to deal with the vehicle follow up your opponent will use and anyway Ostwind is barely better than P4 vs infantry now.

-Use grens, and avoid open spaces. if you use riflenades, try to anticipate where the sniper will go next, rather than its current position. A well-placed riflenade can insta wipe a sniper.

Following your logic, axis sniper should also be little bit more expensive, due to better killing power and camo.

And 90mp for reinforcing sniper IS hurting.

That instead of giving a good advice just get hurt because something was said about your bias opinion about the russians was clear. So i do not ever listen to your bias stuff.

The German sniper reinforces for 360mp. So compared to 90, it's not hurting. If you go heavy sniper you don't really bleed mp a lot.

and he doesnt even keep the Vet

And that is also a point. Sniper Team with 2 guys is just a bullshit design decision. Also the German Sniper has to make more impact because the reinforcement costs are not that high on the russians than on the German side and therefore every German soldier lost is from higher value than cheap russian conscripts etc. that are easily and cheap replaced.

Axis mortar : better stats, 4 guys, 240mp.
Soviet mortar: worse stats, 50% more guys, same cost

Axis MG : some stats better, some worse, 4 guys, 240mp
Soviet MG : some stats better, some worse, 50% more guys, same cost.

Axis sniper : better stats, 1 guy, 360mp
Soviet sniper: worse stats, 100% more guys, same cost.

One of these is not like the others. Can you spot it?

Its simple.
The German sniper is much, much more vulnerable and while he is more lethal this increase in lethality (which in turn is mitigated by larger Sov. squad sizes) is not sufficient to put him on equal terms with his Soviet analogue.
And btw, back in the day I cheesed my way into Soviet top 25 with this very build under discussion here, and I will readily admit I had no business being there, at all.

Nice use of percentages, now let use numbers.

Axis mortar : better stats, 4 guys, 240mp.
Soviet mortar: worse stats, 2 more guys, same cost

Axis MG : some stats better, some worse, 4 guys, 240mp
Soviet MG : some stats better, some worse, 2 more guys, same cost.

Axis sniper : better stats, 1 guy, 360mp
Soviet sniper: worse stats, 1 more guys, same cost.

So by this logic, we need another sniper.

Nice use of percentages, now let use numbers.

That just makes zero sense and is being intentionally obtuse. Thanks for not debating my point in a meaningful manner, I guess.

Ok, Axis core squads cost 66% per entity in all cases except Sniper. Care to debate that?

Your right, I am not debating your point.

Because having half a sniper would just be silly.

That instead of giving a good advice just get hurt because something was said about your bias opinion about the russians was clear. So i do not ever listen to your bias stuff.

People are giving exactly the same advise since the strat was first used.

Nothing really changed since then, still 222, mortars and having 251 behind a-moving LMG grens works.

Your right, I am not debating your point.

Because having half a sniper would just be silly.

Exactly, and since there is two the cost should be increased proportionally.

Katitof, maybe you can rephrase your answer to a bit less hostile way.

Edited previous one. Good now?

Since everyone here seems to have some epic problem with the soviets having a viable unit, nay I say highly effective unit; let me list a number of thing that make me swear while using snipers.

If you effectively use any of the following, you will beat any sort of sniper spam.

Mortar half tracks - they rock at killing snipers, or at a bare minimum, they keep them stuck in unfavourable positions.

Kubel - Snipers cannot kill them without support.

222 Scout Car - If they have snipers, and haven't gotten guards out yet and this thing hit the field, it can literately chase them into spawn and kill them all. If they do have guards, use the auto cannon upgrade and ruin the guards at a distance. With the new grouping changes this thing can stand up to guards (I know this sounds ridiculous, but please try it).

Rifle grenades - They one shot kill sniper squads.

Jaeger - Or any other call in infantry that enters a building. I cant count how many times a good German player will use these to have infantry show up right beside my snipers, and then proceed to murder them.



Now moving on to my next point. Conscripts are not as good as Grenadier or Volks right? no there not. Therefore we should nerf Grenadiers and Volks right? no, no we shouldn't. Soviet snipers are supposed to be better then German snipers, that's part of the design, just like Grenadiers and Volks are better then conscripts.

Since everyone here seems to have some epic problem with the soviets having a viable unit, nay I say highly effective unit; let me list a number of thing that make me swear while using snipers.

If you effectively use any of the following, you will beat any sort of sniper spam.

Mortar half tracks - they rock at killing snipers, or at a bare minimum, they keep them stuck in unfavourable positions.

Kubel - Snipers cannot kill them without support.

222 Scout Car - If they have snipers, and haven't gotten guards out yet and this thing hit the field, it can literately chase them into spawn and kill them all. If they do have guards, use the auto cannon upgrade and ruin the guards at a distance. With the new grouping changes this thing can stand up to guards (I know this sounds ridiculous, but please try it).

Rifle grenades - They one shot kill sniper squads.

Jaeger - Or any other call in infantry that enters a building. I cant count how many times a good German player will use these to have infantry show up right beside my snipers, and then proceed to murder them.



Now moving on to my next point. Conscripts are not as good as Grenadier or Volks right? no there not. Therefore we should nerf Grenadiers and Volks right? no, no we shouldn't. Soviet snipers are supposed to be better then German snipers, that's part of the design, just like Grenadiers and Volks are better then conscripts.

Man you are kidding.

1,Pls stop talking that Mortar HT can counter snipers. Mortar HT's incendiary is not that accurate and it is a good counter to static team weapons but a bad counter to snipers and rifle infantry.

2,Kubel never works well against Soviet T1.

3,222 sounds like a good counter to snipers but considering mines and guards , it is always a fuel wasting , maybe it happens just after it hits the field , maybe a few seconds later.

4,Rifle grenades, A well-micro player won't let this happen.

5,Call in infantry. This will acoording to commanders. It limits the tactics of German army.

Maybe conscripts can be buffed, since cons are the main troops. Snipers should be a support unit but now it is a main role unit due to bad design of Relic.

Oh lol , remember only one guy in a team is actually sniper , other just stupid scum who always miss and uncloaking whole team by shooting in air. And about guards , almost useless unit who lose to any one if not blobed . you need just cap points and do fast tech to ostwind , if you can't just do a trick , guards can't shoot on move just move some cars to it blob and moving around and enemy will just run around, and another strategy is 251 with PG or AG inside who move directly (or from flank ) and disembark your assault troops who easy kill sniper and damage or kill guards . And you always can do a cheap mortar ht and spam cheap flame rounds? or use standart mortars.

I usually just surrender. If someone is so desperate for a win that that go 2x sniper + guards + T34/85 or ISU152 (they always use these doctrines for maximum cheese), then I just give them what they want and go on to the next game. It's just such an abusive, tedious, and boring playstyle that I don't bother against it.

Best advice so far. It is just boring abusive strategy which on some maps is just unbeatable unless you are playing against noobs or the enemy player is just too unlucky.

Best advice so far. It is just boring abusive strategy which on some maps is just unbeatable unless you are playing against noobs or the enemy player is just too unlucky.

No it's definitely beatable, it's a very risky strategy that leaves you counterable to said strategics in the first minutes of the game.
High risk, high reward - I won and lost against enough top 100 players that used this strategy.
Few times people even ragequit if you kill their 2-3 snipers before you reach the 10 minute mark.

Man you are kidding.

1,Pls stop talking that Mortar HT can counter snipers. Mortar HT's incendiary is not that accurate and it is a good counter to static team weapons but a bad counter to snipers and rifle infantry.

2,Kubel never works well against Soviet T1.

3,222 sounds like a good counter to snipers but considering mines and guards , it is always a fuel wasting , maybe it happens just after it hits the field , maybe a few seconds later.

4,Rifle grenades, A well-micro player won't let this happen.

5,Call in infantry. This will acoording to commanders. It limits the tactics of German army.

Maybe conscripts can be buffed, since cons are the main troops. Snipers should be a support unit but now it is a main role unit due to bad design of Relic.

Alright, so all of these work. And if you can't seem to beat an opponent using these strategies, its because your opponent is better then you.

When I do this strategy should I go sniper>optional M3 to counter Kubel> SU-85, or should I hold out for T34/85s?

motar half track flame ability. or mech assualt

Faced this strategy of 2 sniper and guards on wrecked train and twice landed incendiary mortars on them only to watch them LOL sprint away for 10 muni, cars got buttoned every time as well as half tracks with PG as wel. The guy had 3 guards squads bracketing his snubbed on all sides so no flank was unprotected. It was the most infuriating game I have played in COH2 to date.