Axis Comebacks

but how do you come back as USF

You come back where you came from and weep in a corner.

Being a glutton for punishment I play the majority of my team games on the Allied side. When I do play Axis my teammates have remarked that I'm too pessimistic and too quick to reach for the surrender button if mid game is going poorly. I don't mean to roll over on a tough game, but there is such a disparity in comeback/lategame possibilities it has effected how I perceive the game; I'm sure I'm not alone.

I won't rehash the many reasons why OKW/OH have a killer late game, but one factor stands out:

OKW must deploy all HQ's in order to access the King Tiger, but they are free to lose the trucks and get pushed back without losing access to the KT. As a non-doctrinal unit I feel the KT should be a stalemate breaker or coup-de-gras for a successful OKW player. Because Allies can't hinder KT production by destroying forward trucks the KT instead becomes a built-in comeback device and a solid contributor for OKW's unbelievable 88% 4v4 win rate.

Simply require all forward trucks to be alive/rebuilt to enable KT production. This gives the Allies options to delay the KT and a desperately needed opportunity for Allies to punish OKW for doing poorly mid-game.

My hope is that someday Allies won't need to win the game twice: once against the German army then again against the superheavy tank wave.

Note that this post is directed toward team games. 1v1 is balanced, team games are not. With a luftwaffe OH helping OKW with fuel it is possible to consistently get a KT out at the 13 minute mark with additional KT's not far behind.

losing units as usf is gg. plain and simple

losing viable units as sov. such as snipers and guards is gg

as OKW i had a game yesterday where i lost 1 mg34 3 sturmpios from a luck mortar, and lost to shreked volks from a luck demo.

axis is simply easier to play. very forgiving.

i built a KT and made double obers. My KT got 87 kills and vet 5. obers got a combined total of 154 kills.

i cant find my sepf to play allies for long periods of time anymore.

USF has no elite infantry in t4. jackson has a hard time penetrating a panther and above. hell, it even has trouble against a vet 2 p4 with skirts.

sov get very boring and too east to counter. mortar halftrack flame ability makes their t2 useless. stuka does the same.

spamming penals or cons wont work cus they dont scale. shocks are easily denied with proper mg placement and support.

and axis have way more options

sov its either t1 or t2. transition into call-ins

usf is ur good for the first 10mins. then its an uphill battle. U think u are wining, then a tiger ace will end everything.

If ur oportunity window is huge for usf or sov thier is no reason to lose. get mines ATG's amd tanks.

If ur window is very small, then there is little u can do.

basically this.

im so sick of getting cut down by a+move obers, my tanks getting assraped from a jagdtiger stationed on the moon. blasted by 10min stukas and having to reverse my tank from a single schreck. if thats not enough, 50 range tiger ace with smoke canisters and blitz, as if 1 getaway ability while outranging most conventional tanks isnt enough.

well played relic, selling ardennes assault while the mp is dominated by deutschland, the bloody irony. lets see what you can do with ur 'future' balance patches. im not expecting much.

If you want to win as Allies (at least, as soviets-i don't play/hate US-), you MUST defeat Axis in the first ten minutes and negate his fuel ASAP. If you don't arrive at his base in that period of time, axis will arrive at yours at min 20-40.

I think a major problem comes from the OPness of Axis hand-held AT, mainly shreks when used in blobs. And also explains why people like ISU (and to lesser extend IS-2) so much. They are the only Allied armor that can reliable scare away Shrek blobs.

This is a huge factor and one of the reasons I was disappointed by the USF faction. Before WFA was released I was very excited for bazookas as I was sure Relic was smart enough to make USF a complementary army to Soviets that would provide the scaling infantry and handheld AT that SU lacked. This would have eliminated the monopoly that shreks held in infantry presence with strong anti-tank firepower. Instead of making armies complementary Relic decides to give them the same army characteristics and weaknesses of SU: a mobile army of average, mid range infantry that uses early vehicles to compensate for the lack of late game non-doctrinal heavy armor. Not only that but Relic insisted on both OH and OKW playing similar: defensive factions relying on elite infantry and support weapons with late game superheavy armor. The ball-dropping and lost opportunity to diversify the team factions mystifies me to this day.

Sorry for the tangent, but as armatak mentioned a lot of game flow is based on shreks. OH PGrens are deadly but expensive and specialized enough to be balanced. The ubiquitous Volk shrek blob is neither expensive nor specialized, but still dangerous to armor and guaranteed to be on the field. This AT field presence allows Axis factions to lose tanks mid-game without fear of counterattack by Allied tanks. Conversely if Allies lost their first armor they can be largely routed from the map by a single P4. Of course all factions have access to AT guns, but the shrek blob is a potent, easy to use game mechanic that Allies have no equivalent.

I don't see shrek proliferation ever being reduced, but at the very least it would be nice if Volks didn't instantly get vet 5 after a couple shrek shots at vehicles.

This is an overgeneralization. Most 4v4 games end up being late game armor battles. Don't forget, Axis armor is a lot better than Allied when compared pound for pound.

We're talking about 4v4s lol? Then what I said is wrong, most likely there will be an ostheer teammate to build fuel caches for the okw then. I'm talking about 1v1s - obviously the okw were not designed to have a large fuel income and any discussion about balance in team games is skewed by how resources are shared. Comebacks in 1v1s happen all the time, with all armies.

I wonder why this thread didn't pop up 12 months ago. Now its too late, Relic is already releasing SP only expansions, Noun quit over 'no support', patches qualify as too little too late at best, yeah the marks are on the wall.

relic fixing u gamebalance. its joke. so many OP germans units - its wrong.

relic fixing u gamebalance. its joke. so many OP germans units - its wrong.

Game is historically balanced.

I just want to point out that i am not against comebacks. Comebacks are great for the game, and exciting to pull off; it is a great reward and feeling for the player that pulls it off.

However, comebacks should happen due to skilled play and luck (RNG Gods ). Currently, it feels almost like an artificial challenge with the stronger Axis tanks and more potent infantry. An allied player really has to be on his or her A game in order to counter the heavy tanks the Axis bring out late game.

I would love to see numbers on the win rates between Soviets and OStheer 4v4 before WFA was released. It seems that it could be fairly balanced. However, OKW really ruins team games


The ability to get schrecks on VOlks is absurd. Imagine conscripts or shocks getting schrecks, a unit that you will be facing in every game in all situations. Few if not any Allied tank can stand up to Axis heavies in a front assault. That is fine. FLanking is important and is a good way to defeat Axis armor. However, OKW vehicles are always supported by Schrecks which make flanking very difficult.

I would love to see numbers on the win rates between Soviets and OStheer 4v4 before WFA was released. It seems that it could be fairly balanced. However, OKW really ruins team games

From memory it leaned 55-60% in favour of Ostheer... All that Ost heavy armour once again...


Note to Relic, can we have a crap German faction? One which is helpless against Allies for once? Or else a blatantly OP Allied faction? It feels like the German fanboism is strong in Relic... judging by many balance decisions... :/

From memory it leaned 55-60% in favour of Ostheer... All that Ost heavy armour once again...


Note to Relic, can we have a crap German faction? One which is helpless against Allies for once? Or else a blatantly OP Allied faction? It feels like the German fanboism is strong in Relic... judging by many balance decisions... :/

lol...I feel like this thread is a Geicko commercial..."did you know that Axis can stage ridiculous comebacks on a regular basis, against all odds?" "Yeah, everyone knows that". So many threads about this; let me save you some time. People will tell you to:

L2P
Don't play team games
As Allies , destroy your opponents in 10 mins or less.
Play Axis

I'm a pretty dedicated Allied player, but that last one is true. Seriously evaluate why you play the game. No one likes to walk away from a game frustrated and seething. Wanna have fun and not feel like you're beating your head against a wall? In team games, play Axis. End of story.

I don't know if it was a conscious design decision by Relic (I think it might be), but the idea of different game stages favoring different factions has always been, and remains a giant crock of sheiB.

My 2v2 partner and I went Germans originally, then started playing USA when the exp game out, then mixed Axis, and are now experimenting with USF / Sov mixed teams. It is ludicrous how different the game feels based on how you're doing early - as Axis, clinging on with a small resource disadvantage is very manageable and you've still got a good chance of winning later on. As Allies, a small resource disadvantage over the first stages of the game means you're practically doomed.

Losing to supertanks is just the worst shit.

lol...I feel like this thread is a Geicko commercial..."did you know that Axis can stage ridiculous comebacks on a regular basis, against all odds?" "Yeah, everyone knows that". So many threads about this; let me save you some time. People will tell you to:

L2P
Don't play team games
As Allies , destroy your opponents in 10 mins or less.
Play Axis

I'm a pretty dedicated Allied player, but that last one is true. Seriously evaluate why you play the game. No one likes to walk away from a game frustrated and seething. Wanna have fun and not feel like you're beating your head against a wall? In team games, play Axis. End of story.

It's NOT team games that are the problem. It's games that become long. If a 1v1 game gets long, your chance of winning as allies falls dramatically. Team games just become long more often, however. But the problem is very much still relevant for 1v1 games.

falshgaers punish shooktroops without damage at mid range. ppsh profile need rebalance. ppsh not correctly working at mid range.falshgaers nedd some range thats ppsh or ppsh need buff mid range

I don't know if it was a conscious design decision by Relic (I think it might be), but the idea of different game stages favoring different factions has always been, and remains a giant crock of sheiB.

My 2v2 partner and I went Germans originally, then started playing USA when the exp game out, then mixed Axis, and are now experimenting with USF / Sov mixed teams. It is ludicrous how different the game feels based on how you're doing early - as Axis, clinging on with a small resource disadvantage is very manageable and you've still got a good chance of winning later on. As Allies, a small resource disadvantage over the first stages of the game means you're practically doomed.

Losing to supertanks is just the worst shit.

I would like power curve smoothed out a bit for all factions. ALlies shouldn't have the better early game (although i am not sure if this is even true..), and Axis shouldn't have the stronger late gane. It creates an artificial challenge for players.

I think this can be fixed without destroying the asymmetric balance of each faction. Unit can still be unique and serve different functions, but if you give factions viable counters at each stage of the gae, frustration, and imbalance should go down.

falshgaers punish shooktroops without damage at mid range. ppsh profile need rebalance. ppsh not correctly working at mid range.falshgaers nedd some range thats ppsh or ppsh need buff mid range

Dude, are you frothing at the mouth or something? If not, you should put a modicum of effort into your posts, they sure are hard to read/decipher.
Anyways, Fallschirmjäger as a unit are filthy expensive, have good but unspectacular dps at all ranges, but are also very fragile.
Shocks on the other hand have by far the largest shortrange dps of any infantry unit in the game, and to help you get there, they have armour (again, pretty much unique to them), a smoke grenade, and 6 models. In any standup fight between Shocks and Fallschirmjäger, the former will always win unless you mismicro or have to cross red cover and get unlucky, and usually they will win without even dropping a model. There was a time when Conscript PPSHs made the unit worthless at anything but knifefighting distance, and this has been remedied, but the last thing Shocks (and this games balance) need is a midrange DPS buff.

4v4 is easy mode for axis