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Kappatch - A minor rebalance mod

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1 Nov 2014, 01:43 AM
#161
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Nov 2014, 00:10 AMCruzz


Quite reasonable, will keep in mind.


Poll time:

What to do with vehicle death crits?

Currently the situation for (the vast majority of) vehicles is that a shot that brings the unit down to 0 health has these probabilities:

55% chance outright destroy
20% chance out of control
10% main gun destroyed
10% engine damage REAR ARMOR HITS ONLY
5% abandon

Due to the engine damage issue, it effectively is slightly harder to kill a vehicle when firing at its rear because the chance of the death crits will be slightly lower.

So anyway, what do you think should be done to these values? Conditionals can be attached to the crits to an extent, like "abandon, only if has crit x"


i think main gun destroyed sucks the most. should have no or lowest value imo.
1 Nov 2014, 02:20 AM
#162
avatar of DaneNeral

Posts: 5

Possible to fix the USF and OKW's extra vulnerability to death critc of flaming weapons?

And for vehicle death critc, I would say outright destroy should definitely be much frequent, lets say at least 70%, and main gun damage is just pure BS.
1 Nov 2014, 03:49 AM
#163
avatar of Retaliation
Donator 11

Posts: 97

Is there any potential for a fix that could stop recon thompson paras from dropping weapons they pick up like candy? I'm assuming being able to pick them up is intentional because they only have 3 thompsons.
1 Nov 2014, 03:59 AM
#164
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351

I'd like to see something like:

60% destroy
35% out of control (only when no engine damage of any kind)
5% abandoned (only when immobilized or heavy engine damage)

That way you can still have the fun of occasionally stealing a vehicle but it will become an immediate point of contention as it will need reps before it goes any where and your opponent will know that.
1 Nov 2014, 03:59 AM
#165
avatar of ilGetUSomDay

Posts: 612

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Nov 2014, 00:10 AMCruzz


Quite reasonable, will keep in mind.


Poll time:

What to do with vehicle death crits?

Currently the situation for (the vast majority of) vehicles is that a shot that brings the unit down to 0 health has these probabilities:

55% chance outright destroy
20% chance out of control
10% main gun destroyed
10% engine damage REAR ARMOR HITS ONLY
5% abandon

Due to the engine damage issue, it effectively is slightly harder to kill a vehicle when firing at its rear because the chance of the death crits will be slightly lower.

So anyway, what do you think should be done to these values? Conditionals can be attached to the crits to an extent, like "abandon, only if has crit x"


Honestly I think the idea of death crits is kind of silly. If a tank has next to no hull integrity left and you hit it, the, there should not be 20% chance of some thing else happening. I would say half the percentage for the main gun, engine damage, and abandon, and put that into out right destroy
1 Nov 2014, 06:09 AM
#166
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

Weird idea that probably isn't very good time:

Abandoned vehicles are cool because of the opportunities they create, but the mechanic is annoying because it can have a huge impact on the game (get a Tiger, for instance) and it's very random.

What if all vehicles, rather than being destroyed, got abandoned first? That way abandonment is still in the game, but in a consistent way that you can plan for.

Of course, you can still always just destroy them right after with attack ground.

To balance this out, maybe abandoned vehicles should have heavy engine damage and destroyed gun? That way capturing them requires lots of effort.
1 Nov 2014, 06:33 AM
#167
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

For death crits, main gun destroyed and abandonment should only happen if the tank already has engine damage. I'd also remove the engine damage only on rear hits thing and replace it with immobilization when hit from any direction. Out of control should probably only happen on tanks that don't have engine damage.
1 Nov 2014, 07:05 AM
#168
avatar of ASneakyFox

Posts: 365

..has anyone even played this mod yet? i feel like theres so many praises and further suggestions going in, but theres already dozens of balance ideas in there and i dont think anyones actually tried them yet. Its quite possible that after loading a 1v1 player vs player game that a lot of spammy tactics that previously didnt work. a lot of the changes involve heavily reducing manpower costs so amassing zerg armies would be much easier.
1 Nov 2014, 07:25 AM
#169
avatar of GuruSkippy

Posts: 150

..has anyone even played this mod yet? i feel like theres so many praises and further suggestions going in, but theres already dozens of balance ideas in there and i dont think anyones actually tried them yet.

And I think we have a winner here.
1 Nov 2014, 07:31 AM
#170
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Nov 2014, 06:33 AMRomeo
For death crits, main gun destroyed and abandonment should only happen if the tank already has engine damage. I'd also remove the engine damage only on rear hits thing and replace it with immobilization when hit from any direction. Out of control should probably only happen on tanks that don't have engine damage.

What? out of control on destroyed engine tanks is hilarious :D
1 Nov 2014, 08:04 AM
#171
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

Looks really nice, the tier price reduction for builidng another T3 or T4 is absolutely what relic should do in past year.


And, I think Soviet should be able to build T-34/85 after build both T3/T4 structure (ok,meanwhile we have panther/KT at axis side)
1 Nov 2014, 08:38 AM
#172
avatar of MarcoRossolini

Posts: 1042

Weird idea that probably isn't very good time:

Abandoned vehicles are cool because of the opportunities they create, but the mechanic is annoying because it can have a huge impact on the game (get a Tiger, for instance) and it's very random.

What if all vehicles, rather than being destroyed, got abandoned first? That way abandonment is still in the game, but in a consistent way that you can plan for.

Of course, you can still always just destroy them right after with attack ground.

To balance this out, maybe abandoned vehicles should have heavy engine damage and destroyed gun? That way capturing them requires lots of effort.


Very neat idea, I like it alot (though I'll hold judgement until I've played with it...)
1 Nov 2014, 09:02 AM
#173
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

Is there any potential for a fix that could stop recon thompson paras from dropping weapons they pick up like candy? I'm assuming being able to pick them up is intentional because they only have 3 thompsons.


Not easily, would need a new squad & paratrooper type for the Thompson version (just copypaste, but makes for messy gamefiles), and the new squad would have the feature that thompsons do not pass around because they're tied to 3 specific models.


Possible to fix the USF and OKW's extra vulnerability to death critc of flaming weapons?


Yes, crit weights are easy to change, just involve changing a lot of files so I haven't touched them so far. However I've already changed flamethrower explode to only happen to the last guy in the squad, so the doubled chance for okw/aef only means less flamethrower drops, assuming the conditional works properly.


What about the crappy Soviet call-in M-42 45mm At gun? I propose it functions like the Puppchen and can get suppressed, retreat and garrison buildings.


Will try that to see how it goes
1 Nov 2014, 09:17 AM
#174
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 353

how about kingtiger ?
1 Nov 2014, 09:33 AM
#175
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

It might be interesting to experiment with making abandoned vehicle more predictable. For example, maybe make it a 33% change for the vehicle to be abandoned when it has a damaged engine, 66% chance with a destroyed engine. These values are probably dramatically too high but I like the idea of making abandoned vehicles something a player could actually attempt to influence through at snares and mines. It also makes sense that a vehicle crew wouldn't want to remain in their vehicle once it looses engine power and comes under enemy fire.
1 Nov 2014, 10:20 AM
#176
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

Can you change blitzkrieg that it can only be engaged while NOT in battle? So thus making it a viable blitz-in abbility, but no easy way out.
1 Nov 2014, 10:23 AM
#177
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

It might be interesting to experiment with making abandoned vehicle more predictable. For example, maybe make it a 33% change for the vehicle to be abandoned when it has a damaged engine, 66% chance with a destroyed engine. These values are probably dramatically too high but I like the idea of making abandoned vehicles something a player could actually attempt to influence through at snares and mines. It also makes sense that a vehicle crew wouldn't want to remain in their vehicle once it looses engine power and comes under enemy fire.


Wow, this actually a superb idea..
I imagine people setting up ambushes with engineers behind the corner, waiting for tanks to drive over a couple of mines and having a chance to be abandoned. In this way, abandoning is a tactic you can use rather than an irritating feature.
It needs to be finetuned but I like it a lot.
1 Nov 2014, 10:28 AM
#178
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

To respond on your vehicle crits poll:

The important aspect here is ' consistency '.
When driving over a 30muni mine, engine damage plus some damage, but nothing else. No crits for gardens sakes.

Rear armor shot should destroy an already crippled tank more easily.

Main gun destroyed is rubbish.
and
1 Nov 2014, 11:54 AM
#179
avatar of and

Posts: 140

Any chance of looking into the veterancy modifiers? I think a large reason that especially OKW can snowball hard in the late game is largely because of veterancy bonuses. I also believe that the veterancy bonuses are a huge contributor to the blobby gameplay in the late game. Anti infantry and suppression becomes ineffective.

Basically I think that veterancy should be toned down across all factions, and that the game would become much better for it.
1 Nov 2014, 12:41 PM
#180
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

we're gonna give cruzz a burn out :D
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