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russian armor

Change KT with Panzer 4 battle group

26 Oct 2014, 13:16 PM
#21
avatar of BrutusHR

Posts: 262

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2014, 13:13 PMKatitof


Kubel wasn't nerfed, just added a minor fuel cost that gets back to you after you scavenge it.


Well, that affects then cost effectiveness of a unit. Cant check ATM but i think it got bigger size so it easier to get shot by everything except small arms fire (small arms fire always got 100% hit on kubel)
26 Oct 2014, 13:20 PM
#22
avatar of siuking666

Posts: 707




Well ok, but honestly in high level play you dont see the KT alot , because to get it in early stages of the game does usually not pay off.
KT is absolutly fine where it is now ( and how you get it)

I agree with you that the P4s need love , but thats an issue with the lackluster Elite armor doc.


Pretty sure when someone complains about KT, it's a l2p issue.
26 Oct 2014, 13:22 PM
#23
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

King Tiger is fine where it is and if they did move it to Panzer Elite then you would still see a 20 minute King Tiger, as you said. So the meta wouldnt change and this thread has no logical basis. Plus Relic wont change pay for Commanders so why are we even discussing this?
26 Oct 2014, 13:27 PM
#24
avatar of RandomName

Posts: 431

King Tiger is fine where it is and if they did move it to Panzer Elite then you would still see a 20 minute King Tiger, as you said. So the meta wouldnt change and this thread has no logical basis. Plus Relic wont change pay for Commanders so why are we even discussing this?


The logic is that the OKW player does not always choose the Elite Armor doctrine. This means that we don't see always a KT - but if you want it, you can get it by choosing this doctrine. Meanwhile, the P4 is standart and is finally used. So the meta would change. Is it really that hard to understand?
26 Oct 2014, 14:10 PM
#25
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

Is it really hard to understand that I don't share your opinion? My believe is that the king Tiger in Elite Armor would make it the most picked doctrine due not having to tech to get out a King Tiger. The OKW meta would become much like the Soviets with OKW players only getting Tier 2 or 3 and saving fuel for a King Tiger call-in. So I believe you would in fact see MORE King Tiger's due to them being easier to come out.
Vez
26 Oct 2014, 14:11 PM
#26
avatar of Vez

Posts: 141

I totally agree about these changes,it will make the elite armor doctrine more appealing and surely relic will sell more of this commander. So why not? Relic can make more money with commander! Yay! But I think they'll never do sadly...
26 Oct 2014, 14:13 PM
#27
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

Title says it. It would make the Eltie Armor doc more "elite" and people wouldn't also complain anymore about 20 min KT's in 2vs2 and up. I am also tired of seeing a KT nearly every game. USF don't have a hard counter, so this would be also a small balance solution. P4 also would need some love for this. What do you guys think?

It would have something with the CoH1 Panther battle group in common.

This has been requesten already by more than one person.


If you're playing an opponent who is saving up fuel to get KT and you didn't roll over all of them with medium thanks, then that is your fault. I hardly ever get a KT in 2v2 or 3v3, at a competitive level it's very hard to do.

Most Allied players have learned to adapt and now rush out a ton of medium tanks that walk through your pueppchens and shreks. Seiously, if you haven't tried it do this new meta:

fuel cache
fuel cache
fuel cache

t34
t34
t34

etc


Send in infantry spot their AT. Drop incendiary on+behind it.
Drive in tanks, kill everything.
Be amazed when you realise it's possible to get 3-4 T34s before they get a KT.


If you don't believe me, play OKW more. You'll see.
26 Oct 2014, 14:15 PM
#28
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2014, 13:13 PMKatitof


Kubel wasn't nerfed, just added a minor fuel cost that gets back to you after you scavenge it.


Kubel size also increased, now easier to hit with rifles and zookas.


Katitof, play axis sometime. I'm sure it would be a cleansing and invigorating and enlightening experience for you. It wouldn't make you a nazi.
26 Oct 2014, 14:22 PM
#29
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1



Kubel size also increased, now easier to hit with rifles and zookas.


Katitof, play axis sometime. I'm sure it would be a cleansing and invigorating and enlightening experience for you. It wouldn't make you a nazi.


Rifles always had the ability to hit a kubel 100% of the time. It is now easier to hit a kubel with bazookas and AT guns. This, however, should not really be a nerf, because a kubel can still eat 2 AT gun rounds and 3 zooka rounds before it dies, meaning that the enemy has poured a considerable amount of resources into killing said kubel. If you have a problem with the AT guns and PTRS actually hardcountering a kubel, please explain why, I exist to learn!
26 Oct 2014, 14:26 PM
#30
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
KT isnt OP. it just rekts usf due to thier lack of good AT. in the new patch, the 57mm has the highest fire rate of all the non-doc ATG. we will have to wait and see.

But a KT support by spartan obers and volk shreks blobs can become nearly impossible to kill. when micro by someone with half a brain.

the only. and i mean ONLY times i am able to kill a KT is when the player either overextend. i B4 it. we button and bomb it. or it hits an m20 min.

I find with usf. the m20 mine is ur only reliable option. proceeding with p47's
26 Oct 2014, 14:31 PM
#31
avatar of CasTroy

Posts: 559

If you look closely you can see that I have put this thread under "gameplay" instead of "balance". Stop thinking that this is a KT nerf - it is not. You still can get it out at min 20 - it is just now doctrinal. But I like how you panic about your poor OKW :D. For the last time: this is should make P4 better, not KT worse.


Anyway. I don´t like your idea of changing KT with Panzer 4 battle group. I agree with you that "Elite armor" is not quite the right name for the doctrine. But as broodwarjc metioned the whole OKW faction is built around getting as much KT´s as you like to. Why should we want to change the whole faction? In my opinion you have to change the doctrines P4s into two Vet1 Panther or something else. And yes P4 need some love. But giving the KT to just one comamnder, no Sir.
26 Oct 2014, 14:34 PM
#32
avatar of CasTroy

Posts: 559

KT isnt OP. it just rekts usf due to thier lack of good AT. in the new patch, the 57mm has the highest fire rate of all the non-doc ATG. we will have to wait and see.


Thank you, Sir. That is what I wanted to be mentioned.
26 Oct 2014, 14:59 PM
#33
avatar of Deesis

Posts: 8

i dont mind thinking about moving the kt into a doctrine.
but i also think the double p4 would be as unused as ever (even if its gets buffed)if its trades places with the kt.
i mean why would one invest all those resources to get some p4s during late game when i have panthers available by that time? what function would they serve?
26 Oct 2014, 15:06 PM
#34
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

You see KT in every game so making KT doctrinal will help this how? People will just pick KT commander every time. KT is fine, it could use some prettier explosion effects for it's missing shots though.
26 Oct 2014, 15:22 PM
#35
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2

Few days ago i played vs VindicareX, he brought out the KT which i took out in an instance, using stuarts stun and one m10 to circle strafe. both stuart and m10 survived, but i lost the game cause of VP's running out. This proved me, that the KT has its cons and i managed to beat it with so little units.

I like the way you need to get it, it's not cheap and you don't need to get a certain doctrine to get this beautiful tank. I think its in a good position, even tho people complain, i feel the complaining comes from the issue of people not preparing for the KT, so when it does arrive it suddenly makes for such a bad surprise. I find the KT to have more of a psychological impact.

If you read what your opponent is doing, his teching, units or trust your intuition, you can always be prepared mentally for it to arrive and you can find it easier to deal with it.

KT in a doctrine would lose the beauty of OKW.

PS: I'm talking from the 1v1 and 2v2 point of view. Other game types become too much of a spam fest and i think KT is different there.
26 Oct 2014, 15:32 PM
#36
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

If so, buff P4Js a little. They are a bit crappy for a late game.
26 Oct 2014, 16:00 PM
#37
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Plus USF have P47 Strike, which significantly does damage to slow moving King Tiger.



Yea, doctrinal ability as the only counter to stock vehicle.

So many times there were posts like OKW need medium tank...
The most powerful tank in the game as non-doc is sick idea. Just like ISU would be non-doc.
As Soviets you have to go for IS-2, ISU, t34/85 or B4. If you wont go for this you will probably lose.
As OKW you don't need to select doctrine with such caution because everything you need you have in tiers.

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2014, 15:22 PMSpanky
Few days ago i played vs VindicareX, he brought out the KT which i took out in an instance, using stuarts stun and one m10 to circle strafe. both stuart and m10 survived, but i lost the game cause of VP's running out. This proved me, that the KT has its cons and i managed to beat it with so little units.


That's not normal and you know it. KT without any support? No schrecks, raketen?
I mean, killing alone KT is not big deal but 9/10 cases KT wont be alone.
26 Oct 2014, 19:13 PM
#38
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


Kubel size also increased, now easier to hit with rifles and zookas.


You would say PTRS, zooks and AT guns. All things that won't appear on the early game if you want to stay "competitive".

You will not see Kubel spam or more than 2 early on, but the performance of only 1 hasn't change.
26 Oct 2014, 19:17 PM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Kubel size also increased, now easier to hit with rifles and zookas.

Which changes nothing, zero, nada, nic for USF early game, they are as fucked as they were against OKW.


Katitof, play axis sometime. I'm sure it would be a cleansing and invigorating and enlightening experience for you. It wouldn't make you a nazi.

Contrary to 95% of non top players-I do play all factions.

So eat your own advise and play some USF.
26 Oct 2014, 20:32 PM
#40
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

Interesting idea, not sure that Relic would ever consider this.

If KT was removed than P4 should be built one at a time, and should be available after any two buildings are set up. Could also require both buildings to be alive. Price could be adjusted from there. KT in elite armor would add an interesting flavor to that doc.

If this happened it would give OKW a medium tank solidly in the mid game, which might be too much.
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