Title says it. It would make the Eltie Armor doc more "elite" and people wouldn't also complain anymore about 20 min KT's in 2vs2 and up. I am also tired of seeing a KT nearly every game. USF don't have a hard counter, so this would be also a small balance solution. P4 also would need some love for this. What do you guys think?
It would have something with the CoH1 Panther battle group in common.
This has been requesten already by more than one person.
Change KT with Panzer 4 battle group
26 Oct 2014, 10:53 AM
#1
Posts: 431
26 Oct 2014, 11:00 AM
#2
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
I kinda like this idea...
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
26 Oct 2014, 11:02 AM
#3
Posts: 824
The entire faction is designed around getting out the King Tiger. The entire point of suffering through the weak OKW early and mid game is to get a King Tiger late game. Getting 2 crappy Panzer 4s would be a giant kick in the nuts to the faction.
Elite Armor still needs a lot of its doctrine abilities buffed or reduced in price. For now the doctrine is fun, but requires extra micro and RNG luck to get anything out of.
Edit: I could see putting a buffed Panzer 4 in the Tier 4 OKW building in place of the Panther and putting a 2 Panthers battlegroup in place of the King Tiger, but definitely not 2 Panzer 4s that late in the game.
Elite Armor still needs a lot of its doctrine abilities buffed or reduced in price. For now the doctrine is fun, but requires extra micro and RNG luck to get anything out of.
Edit: I could see putting a buffed Panzer 4 in the Tier 4 OKW building in place of the Panther and putting a 2 Panthers battlegroup in place of the King Tiger, but definitely not 2 Panzer 4s that late in the game.
Youtube Streaming: https://www.youtube.com/@broodwarjc1517/streams
26 Oct 2014, 11:03 AM
#4
Posts: 431
The entire faction is designed around getting out the King Tiger. The entire point of suffering through the weak OKW early and mid game is to get a King Tiger late game. Getting 2 crappy Panzer 4s would be a giant kick in the nuts to the faction.
Elite Armor still needs a lot of its doctrine abilities buffed or reduced in price. For now the doctrine is fun, but requires extra micro and RNG luck to get anything out of.
Weak early game? Kübel, Sturmpios, 7 min Puma?
26 Oct 2014, 11:03 AM
#5
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
The entire faction is designed around getting out the King Tiger. The entire point of suffering through the weak OKW early and mid game is to get a King Tiger late game. Getting 2 crappy Panzer 4s would be a giant kick in the nuts to the faction.
Elite Armor still needs a lot of its doctrine abilities buffed or reduced in price. For now the doctrine is fun, but requires extra micro and RNG luck to get anything out of.
god forbid!
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
26 Oct 2014, 11:08 AM
#6
Posts: 559
Weak early game? Kübel, Sturmpios, 7 min Puma?
October patch is coming up in only 4-5 days, just stay tuned.
26 Oct 2014, 11:13 AM
#7
4 
Posts: 369
Ehm, in the upcoming patch OKW still has a very strong early game. The kubel gets a 5 fuel cost, but that doesn't make it any less strong as it is right now.
26 Oct 2014, 11:13 AM
#8
Posts: 431
October patch is coming up in only 4-5 days, just stay tuned.
Puma was nerfed? And Sturmpioneers? Beta players also said that Kübel is still strong. Volks were not killed either.
Btw, can we please get back to the topic?
26 Oct 2014, 11:35 AM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
October patch is coming up in only 4-5 days, just stay tuned.
Which won't affect OKW early game at all.
You'll get tier up 15 seconds later, that is all.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Oct 2014, 11:40 AM
#10
Posts: 158
People who cant deal with KT need to L2p , especially in a 2v2...
like really KT is not OP . Not even close - you sacrifice so much - i cant even remember the last game i build one
like really KT is not OP . Not even close - you sacrifice so much - i cant even remember the last game i build one
26 Oct 2014, 11:57 AM
#11
Posts: 431
People who cant deal with KT need to L2p , especially in a 2v2...
like really KT is not OP . Not even close - you sacrifice so much - i cant even remember the last game i build one
It's not about the KT beeing OP, it is about chaning the meta. Thats why I said USF have no hard counter. Of course, your still can destroy it. You actually could get the KT in the Elite Armour doc still out in time. People should just use some other units - like P4 (after it got buffed of course).
26 Oct 2014, 11:59 AM
#12
Posts: 188
I would like this too as long as they buff the p4s cause how i l8 war p4 worse than a early p4, but i dont like how okw can get out their first panther so easily (i just find it weird how first panther comes at same time as whermacht p4 but by the time of a 2nd their are 3 p4s) I would also like this change to give a slight buff to the kt so ppl would pick a jadtiger over it all the time but also a cost increase and do the coh1 style of once its dead its gone cause in coh2 infinite kts are possible
26 Oct 2014, 12:08 PM
#13
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
I think you haven't thought it till the end.
The King Tiger, like other heavy units is not supposed to have hard counters.
These units require combined arms to be taken down or a numeric advantage.
I don't support this idea, because there is no way that you get panzer IVs over panthers, moreover the okw is designed around being resource starved, but for this they get hard hitting units.
Finally let me show you a list where Relic changed commanders or swapped units outside of a beta or alpha:
...
The King Tiger, like other heavy units is not supposed to have hard counters.
These units require combined arms to be taken down or a numeric advantage.
I don't support this idea, because there is no way that you get panzer IVs over panthers, moreover the okw is designed around being resource starved, but for this they get hard hitting units.
Finally let me show you a list where Relic changed commanders or swapped units outside of a beta or alpha:
...
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
26 Oct 2014, 12:17 PM
#14
Posts: 431
I think you haven't thought it till the end.
The King Tiger, like other heavy units is not supposed to have hard counters.
These units require combined arms to be taken down or a numeric advantage.
I don't support this idea, because there is no way that you get panzer IVs over panthers, moreover the okw is designed around being resource starved, but for this they get hard hitting units.
Finally let me show you a list where Relic changed commanders or swapped units outside of a beta or alpha:
...
Like I said, we need to change the roles too: Panther is a tank destroyer and P4 is an allrounder.
And I don't think its fair when you have to kill a KT with combined arms while the OKW player just has to a-move and dive back sometimes.
Cynthia is now listening to the community. Noun was not. With the new patch I have a new hope that changes like these will be possible.
26 Oct 2014, 12:30 PM
#15
Posts: 158
It's not about the KT beeing OP, it is about chaning the meta. Thats why I said USF have no hard counter. Of course, your still can destroy it. You actually could get the KT in the Elite Armour doc still out in time. People should just use some other units - like P4 (after it got buffed of course).
Well ok, but honestly in high level play you dont see the KT alot , because to get it in early stages of the game does usually not pay off.
KT is absolutly fine where it is now ( and how you get it)
I agree with you that the P4s need love , but thats an issue with the lackluster Elite armor doc.
26 Oct 2014, 12:36 PM
#16
Posts: 875 | Subs: 6
I doubt this will ever happen, but I like the idea. The King Tiger is far too strong and unnecessary icing on the cake for the ridiculously strong, game-breaking late game that OKW have with the 5 vet, Panthers, Walking Stuka, Obersoldaten, Volks Shrek Blobs and forward bases. OKW doesn't need a super heavy anti everything attack move tank to top it off. The King Tiger is okay in team games because of critical mass of AT, but in 1v1's it really is just a right click into the enemies base and win unit, like the Tiger Ace.
The Elite armour is also a really bad and underused commander so it would give it something nice and make it viable. Those P4's would probably need a buff if that's the case though, they sure are underwhelming.
The Elite armour is also a really bad and underused commander so it would give it something nice and make it viable. Those P4's would probably need a buff if that's the case though, they sure are underwhelming.
26 Oct 2014, 12:58 PM
#17
Posts: 824
Well ok, but honestly in high level play you dont see the KT alot , because to get it in early stages of the game does usually not pay off.
KT is absolutly fine where it is now ( and how you get it)
I agree with you that the P4s need love , but thats an issue with the lackluster Elite armor doc.
This^. Plus USF have P47 Strike, which significantly does damage to slow moving King Tiger.
Youtube Streaming: https://www.youtube.com/@broodwarjc1517/streams
26 Oct 2014, 13:08 PM
#18
Posts: 431
This^. Plus USF have P47 Strike, which significantly does damage to slow moving King Tiger.
If you look closely you can see that I have put this thread under "gameplay" instead of "balance". Stop thinking that this is a KT nerf - it is not. You still can get it out at min 20 - it is just now doctrinal. But I like how you panic about your poor OKW
. For the last time: this is should make P4 better, not KT worse.
26 Oct 2014, 13:10 PM
#19
Posts: 262
Weak early game? Kübel, Sturmpios, 7 min Puma?
Kubel got nerfed, sturms are nerfed and they are kinda sucky for their price, puma is kinda op, but for 70 fuel and 66% fuel income she is fine. Almost a fuel price of a t34, if negating fuel penalty.
But, the KT will not be changed with other unit, i guarantee it. Maybe it will be nerfed to oblivion, but it wont be changed or removed.
In hoc signo vinces!
26 Oct 2014, 13:13 PM
#20
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Kubel got nerfed, sturms are nerfed and they are kinda sucky for their price, puma is kinda op, but for 70 fuel and 66% fuel income she is fine. Almost a fuel price of a t34, if negating fuel penalty.
But, the KT will not be changed with other unit, i guarantee it. Maybe it will be nerfed to oblivion, but it wont be changed or removed.
Kubel wasn't nerfed, just added a minor fuel cost that gets back to you after you scavenge it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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