Obersoldaten and stuff

Stop with latin you don't understand. The Following: "id imagine you lead a sad life, all you do is troll this forum and post the same bs to defend why germans must have overperforming units with the same argument over and over again."

Is not Ad hominen. It is a personal attack sure but the writer doesn't claim the argument is wrong because of that. Rather stating the poster makes the same argument over and over, this still it does nothing to refute an argument.

Me leading a sad live is indeed a personal attack. but calling a person a troll is ad hominem.


A troll is a person that tries to derail a argument for his own amusement. He tries to discredit my arguments by calling me a troll.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Igorberger/What_is_an_Internet_Troll

Terminator didn't have bad RNG, he intended to destroy the vehicles, not kill the police.

Me leading a sad live is indeed a personal attack. but calling a person a troll is ad hominem.


A troll is a person that tries to derail a argument for his own amusement. He tries to discredit my arguments by calling me a troll.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Igorberger/What_is_an_Internet_Troll

(reads, raises eyebrow, quotes)

One popular trolling strategy is the practice of Winning by Losing. While the victim is trying to put forward solid and convincing facts to prove his position, the troll's only goal is to infuriate its prey. The troll takes (what it knows to be) a badly flawed, wholly illogical argument, and then vigorously defends it while mocking and insulting its prey. The troll looks like a complete fool, but this is all part of the plan. The victim becomes noticeably angry by trying to repeatedly explain the flaws of the troll's argument. Provoking this anger was the troll's one and only goal from the very beginning.

And we got to the ad hominem phase. where your credibility is even more thoroughly destroyed and making sure that relic will not take this shit seriously at all. mission accomplished

now its time for me to sit back sip a glass of liquor fold my hands over each other and say : just as planned.

Thread derailed: check

Smug satisfaction of thread derailure: Check

Thanks for proving you're a troll?

lock this thread please

Stop whining about the Puma and volks with schrecks.
They were not brought up in this thread because of being awesome or the best AT. But as a counterpoint to why light vehicles don't work as counters towards Obers.

(I don't say I agree with that just thought you'all could use with a reminder of what happened a couple of pages back.)

This was my point all along. I would be ok with Obers being as powerful as they are if there was a readily available way in which to counter them. Light and medium vehicles are not viable counters as OKW has the best light and medium tank killers in the game non-doctrinally.

As a result, your methods of counter are basically down to mines and heavy tanks. Mines are extremely hit or miss given the fact that their damage can be really weird, and they can be detected, and most importantly, Obers are a long range unit. As a result they do not need to take flanks, which is usually the only safe place to lay mines, as mines in the open will likely be hit by mortars or will just be impossible to place.

Add that to the fact that Americans don't even get an anti-infantry mine, and as Americans you are SOL. All of your vehicles are far too light to deter Obers. Maybe you can get Scotts and hope you get lucky at max range, but then you're investing all of your fuel into an AI unit, while the OKW is free to use that fuel to get Panthers, Pumas etc. that can just bum rush your Scotts.

I just don't know what the intended counter for Obers are as Americans. As Soviets you do have a slightly better chance with Shocks, mines and heavy tanks that can stand up to OKW AT, but even then if they get that accuracy modifier vet you're pretty boned, and all of those counters are pretty haphazard for the reasons above.



On an unrelated note, if you're just going to call each other names or argue about WWII please take it to another thread. I do feel like this is one of the biggest balance issues with the game right now, and it should be discussed. #nofun

On an unrelated note, if you're just going to call each other names or argue about WWII please take it to another thread. I do feel like this is one of the biggest balance issues with the game right now, and it should be discussed. #nofun

although i prefer axis, i do have to agree with you there...
today i was locked down by an usf player on langres... i had 3 strategic points and 1vp...
he had 3 shermans (having both fuel points). i had only 1 ober squad 3 shreked-up-volks and 3 püppchen. a couple of minutes later my superior AT forces had gotten rid of his tanks and the obers were vet 5 with 60+ kills to their name...
then i just built a KT and mopped up the rest of his forces.
he had to surrender with 300 vp (i had 100ish). i should have lost,
but i won that game because my obers laughed at his infanrty trying to survive volleys of lmg34 fire ( "haha, schau hans, sie fallen wie die fliegen" - Obersoldat Fritz 2014) and his only available counters where useless against vet 5 volks with shreks (the püppchens died though )

I kill shrek volks with shermans all the time. Honestly I would have blasted those obers first with the shermans then worry about the other stuff. I've noticed sometimes with 1v1 people are sharp in early game and let all kinds of stuff slip in the late game.

I kill shrek volks with shermans all the time. Honestly I would have blasted those obers first with the shermans then worry about the other stuff. I've noticed sometimes with 1v1 people are sharp in early game and let all kinds of stuff slip in the late game.

It's called fatigue. Also, further the game develops, you have to take into consideration more units, abilities and lethality.

i hate obers more than snipers. atleast i can flak some snipers, get a lucky mortar or something.

with obers at vet3+. ive had shocks sit right on top of them and notice almost no damage being done to them.

This issues is huge. once they come out. infantry combat is no longer a viable option

This thread:

Show Spoiler

i hate obers more than snipers. atleast i can flak some snipers, get a lucky mortar or something.

with obers at vet3+. ive had shocks sit right on top of them and notice almost no damage being done to them.

This issues is huge. once they come out. infantry combat is no longer a viable option

Yeah, I think that's the crux of what makes this unit badly designed. Once your enemy has 2+ Obers, unless you have vetted Shocks or vetted LMG Paras (both doctrinal), your infantry is now basically worthless against his infantry. Anything other than the cream of Allied elite troops get melted in seconds by LMG34 fire while not being able to crack that juicy 30% received accuracy. And if Obers get vet 3-4, they are basically invulnerable to anything on foot.

''but get vehicles''. Sure, I'm not saying they are completely invincible. But an entire part of the game -infantry vs infantry combat- gets thrown out of the window because his infantry is strictly superior to yours, unless he micros them terribly (this also kinda goes for Volks and their stupid -60% received accuracy vet). The Jagdtiger was similarily problematic, in that once it came out Allied armor was damn near obsolete in a scenario where forces are otherwise fairly equal. Same with the ISU, which could pretty much single-handedly prevent Axis infantry from, well, existing. The Jagd and ISU were nerfed because Relic recognized that problem, it's time they also figure out that having squads of Terminators that can only be countered by vehicles is stupid.

I kill shrek volks with shermans all the time. Honestly I would have blasted those obers first with the shermans then worry about the other stuff. I've noticed sometimes with 1v1 people are sharp in early game and let all kinds of stuff slip in the late game.

he tried. oh boy, did he try... but they where standing at max range, chipping away at his inf, shielded by volks and backed up by püppchens.
now that i think of it again, it isnt only the insane dps of the obers its the cheap AT meatshields and incredibly versatile back up ATGs (yeah theyre shit on their own, but 3-4 are insanely cheap and quite capable of covering each other) that give them the leeway to kill without fearing their only natural counter...

PS. i could provide a replay of that ridiculous ober domination, but the patch hits tomorrow, so meh

This was my point all along. I would be ok with Obers being as powerful as they are if there was a readily available way in which to counter them. Light and medium vehicles are not viable counters as OKW has the best light and medium tank killers in the game non-doctrinally.

As a result, your methods of counter are basically down to mines and heavy tanks.

This statement is annoying the crap out of me, The puma doesn't guarantee an autowin against the m20/quad or stuart. usage of these light vehicle depends on skill ability usage and terrain and more then once i have knocked out the early puma and decided the game.

This statement is annoying the crap out of me, The puma doesn't guarantee an autowin against the m20/quad or stuart. usage of these light vehicle depends on skill ability usage and terrain and more then once i have knocked out the early puma and decided the game.

Why won't you go ahead and finally post a rep showing us all poor noobs how to play with USF/Sov lights to not auto loose to early puma?

We could take a lesson here.

That, or you're (again) full of it.

I've done it before as well with a lucky m20 mine or something similar, but the majority of the time it's because the other player was less skilled than me and played too aggressively with the puma or was just careless. If it's two players of equal skill the Okw player has a distinct advantage which is not balance.

Paras and LMG rifles handle Obers just fine, as do Shocks and snipers although admittedly you need to be mindful of range with the latter at all times.

The number of Volksgrenadier and SS-Volksgrenadier divisions that were thrown into the meatgrinder in the Ardennes leads me to believe that veteran Axis troops were few and far between in late 1944. Yes, there were crack units. Most of these were concentrated with Joachim Peiper's kampfgruppe. That unit was, for the record, effectively destroyed. Those 'waw elite troops' besieging the 101st Airborne at Bastogne were largely comprised of Volksgrenadier units if memory serves. On the Eastern front the Soviets were equally or more experienced than their German counterparts by the time of the post-Bagration operations.

All of this is irrelevant. Obers are pretty silly for their cost and become worse in team games. They are a set and forget infantry area denial unit that render anything that's not LMG Airborne or on treads null and void. They're also EZmode anti-ATG weapons that allow late-game Axis uberarmor to crush last-ditch ATG walls with even less effort than before.

Don't use Obers in a vacuum. They'll have AT support nearby; if they don't you're doing it wrong. Obers need a cost decrease and an LMG that falls into line with the other LMGs in-game. Maybe give them the LMG42-like LMG34 and a pair of StG 44s in their new role. Bam, looks like an SS unit, armed like an SS unit, and is more elite than other shite for the Germans. Inb4 OMG StGs are so bad QQQQQQQQQ etc.

The number of Volksgrenadier and SS-Volksgrenadier divisions. [...]

No such thing as "SS-Volksgrenadiere." While the Ersatzheer was put under Himmlers control after the July 20 assasination attempt, for all practical purposes the Volksgren.-Div. had nothing to do with the SS and never had that prefix. KG Peiper was not a terribly experienced outfit either...just saying.

babble

plz stop with the historical discussion. this is a game.

dont u dare reply with "its a game based on ww2"

yea so is wolfenstien