Obersoldaten and stuff

Sure I will now sacrifice like next half an hour to find all the numbers. If you are so adamant that Obers are cheap please tell me which unit from the other side of the fence is more expensive. Also please note that I have specifically noted in my first post that they MAY need a slight nerf in long range DPS.

I didn't say they were cheap. You were implying that they are more expensive than other elite infantry. No allied units are more expensive (except the 440 call in cost for shocks, or the 120 muni upgrade for paras), yet Obers will win most engagements consistently against any other elite infantry in the game, despite being roughly equal in terms of cost.

Sometimes you might win an engagement using shocks or paras, with little or no loses, but it's very rare and very situational. Most of the time, if you win an engagement against Obers, it'll be like for like phyrric victory, or you might win and have to pay more than the OKW to get your respective squads back on the field.

I do not have any trouble fighting them when I play Soviets unless they are spammed but then I know i effed up somewhere earlier to let the other guy spamm this unit.

This is complete tripe, sorry to say it. There is absolutely no reason that in a resonably close game, the OKW player cannot get his T4 up. It aint that expensive...

Well, this thread is done lol, time to try again. Much de-rail

Obers are op, its FACT end OF DISCUSSION.

You and discussion? Please do check the definition of this word, I'm pretty sure that discussion does not consist of caps lock overuse. Anyways you still have not refreshed my memory regarding your hailed victories but I am the one who is spouting bs? Oh, the irony.

(except the 440 call in cost for shocks

Since when shocks cost 440? I thought this unit is around 390 mp? Please do understand that when they guy as OKW can spamm Obers he is doing it in favour of any other units. He wont get anything else then and I can exploit this for example trying to stall the mid game with mortars bleeding him and then counter attack with armour.

I didn't say they were cheap. You were implying that they are more expensive than other elite infantry. No allied units are more expensive (except the 440 call in cost for shocks, or the 120 muni upgrade for paras), yet Obers will win most engagements consistently against any other elite infantry in the game, despite being roughly equal in terms of cost.

You dont even know your stuff. shocks are 390 mp and will always beat the obers short range. and para are more expensive because their ability to drop but cost as much as a rifleman per entity and with their lmg upgrade it simply depends who gets the drop on who and if the para's have the suppression ability activated. so the elites are doing so badly.

Second part a lot of people play like idiots and believe that that 3 scripts can take on 3 obers.

Agreed with pretty much most of the OP's points. Soviets won't have a chance against OKW in team games once the ISU nerf takes place unless there's some other big changes.

Obers are Stock units -

Other elite infantry are doctrinal.

Ober LMG has twice the DPS of the regular MG42 - anyone defend why it shouldnt have the same DPS as the lmg42, as the lmg34 also can be shot on the move?

Price never justifies performance. On the ober price/teching logic, it would be perfectly fine for the Soviets to call in the Hammer of Dawn for 300 munitions after all tiers are built, and this weapon instantly destroys every OKW player's deployed truck. But its balanced because it is expensive, right?

This elite infantry is available every game - and who is NOT going to build OKW T4? OKW T4 is the only final tier that rewards an elite infantry unit - the equivalent of 6 inches of icing on top of a cake - and obers are massively cost efficient and handle doctrinal elite infantry very well. Obers snipe models on the move and kill squads whole, paying for themselves. Half the time, an OKW plays so conservatively, that he realizes that he can field 2-3 obersoldaten to deal with everything. The simple availability of the unit is way too much to begin with...

With the muni you didnt spend on obersoldaten, you can buy panzerschrecks for your early game volks to guard your obers from tanks.

Yes the fact that Allies have to use doctrinal infantry to even compete with a nondoc elite unit is kinda bleh

You dont even know your stuff. shocks are 390 mp and will always beat the obers short range.

Yep my bad, I was using the MP cost from the guide section: http://www.coh2.org/guides/2574/soviet-unit-guide#444

OKW needs a total rework or something like that, their units are overperforming or fucking useless. Obers are OP but OKW dont have a lot of other options.

I'm not gonna say anything else, but a game a play recently I had a vet 3 M20 that survived for a while, and I drove it up to a vet 5 ober squad.

I had to pull back almost immediately and ended up doing so little damage that the obers were almost instantly self-healed.

okay invised some posts but not all them do the all the inter connecting posts. guys try to keep it clean please use the report function instead of engaging in "internet combat" it helps us keep the forum clean.

also one person may or may not have to check his pm box

It is amazing how people consider obers op forgeting there are other units fielded by armies not affected by any resource penalties, that can be countered by vehicles only also. What about shock troops? Yes, they are close range units, but that is why they have that armor and the smoke grenade. They are as effective as obers there is no doubt about it, still you are crying a river of tears about obers. They were nerfed once, ok, that was needed. But now?! This is an exageration. What is this hate against everything OKW has?
Once and for all, admit that soviets are the easiest way to victory, not OKW. OKW is comming second. All these whinings about OKW OP units and soviet "weak" units are ridiculous.

I can beat shocks with a couple of lmg grens, easy.

I can beat shocks with a couple of lmg grens, easy.

Yes, if they are at list 2 star vetted and the shocks are vanilla. Wake up man, we weren't born yesterday.

It is amazing how people consider obers op forgeting there are other units fielded by armies not affected by any resource penalties, that can be countered by vehicles only also. What about shock troops? Yes, they are close range units, but that is why they have that armor and the smoke grenade. They are as effective as obers there is no doubt about it, still you are crying a river of tears about obers. They were nerfed once, ok, that was needed. But now?! This is an exageration. What is this hate against everything OKW has?
Once and for all, admit that soviets are the easiest way to victory, not OKW. OKW is comming second. All these whinings about OKW OP units and soviet "weak" units are ridiculous.

I never saw Shocks suad with 70+ kills.

Shocks are good but Obers are in a different league. Shocks just don't have the squad wiping potential of Obers as Shocks need to be very close to do any damage at all. Good players insta-retreat once Shocks start getting close.

However the biggest problem with Obers is this:

Vet 3: -29% received accuracy Passive healing
Vet 4: -29% received accuracy now deals suppression

Two -29% received accuracy modifiers on top of the their base -30% makes them almost immune to bullets. Suppression is just icing on the cake (why wasn't it taken away from Obers when they took it away from Paratroopers?)

Obers are Stock units -

Other elite infantry are doctrinal.

Ober LMG has twice the DPS of the regular MG42 - anyone defend why it shouldnt have the same DPS as the lmg42, as the lmg34 also can be shot on the move?

Price never justifies performance. On the ober price/teching logic, it would be perfectly fine for the Soviets to call in the Hammer of Dawn for 300 munitions after all tiers are built, and this weapon instantly destroys every OKW player's deployed truck. But its balanced because it is expensive, right?

This elite infantry is available every game - and who is NOT going to build OKW T4? OKW T4 is the only final tier that rewards an elite infantry unit - the equivalent of 6 inches of icing on top of a cake - and obers are massively cost efficient and handle doctrinal elite infantry very well. Obers snipe models on the move and kill squads whole, paying for themselves. Half the time, an OKW plays so conservatively, that he realizes that he can field 2-3 obersoldaten to deal with everything. The simple availability of the unit is way too much to begin with...

With the muni you didnt spend on obersoldaten, you can buy panzerschrecks for your early game volks to guard your obers from tanks.

Post me a replay where you are able to hold your own against trifles or soviets elites with volks and mg's. then you realise that you are over exaggerating by a fuckton. The strenght of obers is all but mandatory.

I never saw Shocks suad with 70+ kills.

Neither have i but i see grne squads with 50+ but perhaps it has something to with the fact the axis field a whole lot less infantry as a whole.

Shocks may be good against obers in close-range but you have to remember that shoks must be close. It is much easier to be at range and auto attacking than microing your troops close.

Additionally, there are units in the general vicinity to support, so it isn't as easy as just popping soke and going in