So, lets talk about the ISU-152 and jagtiger changes.
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Posts: 1702
They needed some kind of a fix.
However, I feel that this fix is not the way it is supposed to be fixed.
First, the whole idea of the patch seemed to be to increase the general responsiveness, usability of units. This was all much needed, and units now feel much more reliable and play is now as a result much more fluid.
However, the ISU-152 and jagtiger received some weird changes. Instead of nerfing them in a normal way, relic decided to nerf them in a rather.. unorthodox matter.
Instead of nerfing the unit, they completely removed the usability of the unit. It is now impossible to hit moving targets and overall makes these units borderline useless. It's basically removing the ability of direct fire and made it only have "attack ground"
I feel that these kind of nerfs go againts the idea of the patch which was to make units feel more responsive.
I think a much more simple solution was to simply nerf the accuracy and AOE on the ISU, and removing the ability for the jagtiger to fire through buildings.
Discuss.
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Posts: 292
The ISU will be forgotten and the JT will only see daylight in 3v3 and 4v4.
Posts: 431 | Subs: 1
Posts: 503
"automatic" squadwipes and vehicle kills through several buildings was stupid... now you can still wipe squads and kill things behind buildings, but you actually need to do something for it.
and its far from impossible to hit moving vehicles... it just takes practice. or do you master everything you ever do at first try? maybe start a buisness then or invest in stocks
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
Although im for a Jagdtiger and ISU nerf.
Posts: 14
TL;DR This was the most retarded "fix" imaginable.
Bonus feature: your isu shots now can impact on shot blockers, since it now shoots like "attack ground" order was given.
Posts: 41
If you actually removed the "shooting through buildings" from the Jagdtiger...what would distinguish it from the Elefant??
Although im for a Jagdtiger and ISU nerf.
Stats-wise the Jagdtiger is superior.
1280 vs 1040 hp
525 vs 400 armor
550.0/525.0/500.0 vs 440.0/400.0/360.0 penetration
Also I think it has 10(?) more range than the elephant.
More expensive of course, but you get a stronger vehicle.
Sources:
http://www.coh2-stats.com/vehicles/jagdtiger_sdkfz_186_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/vehicles/elefant_sdkfz_184_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/jagdtiger_pak_44_128mm_gun_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/elefant_88mm_gun_mp
Posts: 273
Posts: 1108
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
If you actually removed the "shooting through buildings" from the Jagdtiger...what would distinguish it from the Elefant??
Although im for a Jagdtiger and ISU nerf.
And whats the difference between King Tiger and Tiger? Are You saying that KT should get some gamebreaker ability just to be someway different than Tiger? Same thing.
Posts: 503
The elefant can still auto shoot?
yes. i think its fine. it neither wipes squads nor does it shoot through buildings
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Strange though... They both got nerfed the same way but they work vastly different. They should just have removed the JT ability to shoot through obstacles and increase reload time of the ISU.
The ISU will be forgotten and the JT will only see daylight in 3v3 and 4v4.
Yep, you nailed it.
Posts: 978
Posts: 324 | Subs: 2
Joke. I'm not fond of the change. But then again i'm lazy and don't like playing high APM intensive strategy games e.g. SC2.
Whats the problem of the ISU 152? Is is that it one-shots squads effortlessly from far away? Or is the one-shots squads from far away part actually fine and only the effortlessly part is flawed?
I would argue the one-shot part is the problem. No increase in reload time, no decrease in range, no limit to unit count and no increase in the micro requirement will prevent one-shots. The AOE has to be tweaked, as far as i am concerned.
With the current change it will be necessary to hotkey your supertanks and be able to quickly execute the "attack ground/unit" command even in the heat of the battle to get your moneys worth. The way i see it, players with less stellar micro and reflexes will be severely punished, no matter how good their decision making is. Not sure if i like that.
The Jagdtiger can more easily be adjusted, because it is mainly AT. Removing the ability to shoot through buildings or decreasing the range sounds alright. The inherent ability to get stunned could be removed to compensate.
Posts: 2070
It's all your fault kreatiiiiiir!
Joke. I'm not fond of the change. But then again i'm lazy and don't like playing high APM intensive strategy games e.g. SC2.
Whats the problem of the ISU 152? Is is that it one-shots squads effortlessly from far away? Or is the one-shots squads from far away part actually fine and only the effortlessly part is flawed?
I would argue the one-shot part is the problem. No increase in reload time, no decrease in range, no limit to unit count and no increase in the micro requirement will prevent one-shots. The AOE has to be tweaked, as far as i am concerned.
With the current change it will be necessary to hotkey your supertanks and be able to quickly execute the "attack ground/unit" command even in the heat of the battle to get your moneys worth. The way i see it, players with less stellar micro and reflexes will be severely punished, no matter how good their decision making is. Not sure if i like that.
Great points! I find the ISU very hard ot balance because of its design. It is essentially a huge artillery piece mounted on a mobile platform. It would be weird if it didn't hurt tanks or infantry. It is difficult to find that sweet spot where there is an acceptable amount of damage reached without making the unit OP. The Jagdtiger is a lot more easier to fix because it is mainly an anti-tank vehicle.
The Jagdtiger can more easily be adjusted, because it is mainly AT. Removing the ability to shoot through buildings or decreasing the range sounds alright. The inherent ability to get stunned could be removed to compensate.
Posts: 4928
The way i see it, players with less stellar micro and reflexes will be severely punished, no matter how good their decision making is. Not sure if i like that.
This is how most of the game already though. Grens got molo'd? Bundle Grenade on Guards? Shock Troops facing LMG's at long range? You lose all of them if you aren't paying any attention. You can master microing a small group all you want, but the rest of your forces will suffer.
Posts: 987
It's all your fault kreatiiiiiir!
Joke. I'm not fond of the change. But then again i'm lazy and don't like playing high APM intensive strategy games e.g. SC2.
Whats the problem of the ISU 152? Is is that it one-shots squads effortlessly from far away? Or is the one-shots squads from far away part actually fine and only the effortlessly part is flawed?
I would argue the one-shot part is the problem. No increase in reload time, no decrease in range, no limit to unit count and no increase in the micro requirement will prevent one-shots. The AOE has to be tweaked, as far as i am concerned.
With the current change it will be necessary to hotkey your supertanks and be able to quickly execute the "attack ground/unit" command even in the heat of the battle to get your moneys worth. The way i see it, players with less stellar micro and reflexes will be severely punished, no matter how good their decision making is. Not sure if i like that.
The Jagdtiger can more easily be adjusted, because it is mainly AT. Removing the ability to shoot through buildings or decreasing the range sounds alright. The inherent ability to get stunned could be removed to compensate.
Big +1
Just stop the squad-wiping by changing AoE and things will be much better.
The changes to JT and ISU are improvements but I think there may be a better solution
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Posts: 2070
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