OKW Teching

I don't have OKW, but I think its cool that they can really put any building down and still be effective.

I forget. when i use smoke on kubel. it will just sit there and let me flank it.

OH WAIT.....

Lets also not forget the bugs with smoke. If you begin the launch smoke animation and come under any fire that either suppresses or makes your Riflemen TAKE COVER it breaks the animation for Smoke and AT Rnades while they do acrobatics. But they keep trying no matter what until they either launch it or retreat. Causing an animation loop. I love this "Feature". Smoke will only ever be useful if they fix this bug. I cant tell you how many times I started launching smoke in rushs the Kubel starts to suppress and literally 15 seconds later the Riflemen lauch the smoke. Not fighting the ENTIRE time....

The reason why Kubels and Pumas are so strong is because the intended coutner, Bazookas are so god damn awful. They're unable to consistently hit small fast vehicles, and unable to penetrate big tanks.

The problem with the US Teching system is T2 literally has no AT whatsoever, No Bazookas, no AT guns, No Stuart. Whilst T3 has everything; Bazookas, AT Guns and Stuart. Not that they're particularly effective, due to Bazookas drastic underperformance, and AT guns being too immobile against the Puma, let alone with smoke.

But it really should be mixed up because of how much overlap. I think Moving the Lieutenant Squad to T3 instead of the Captain Squad to T2 would definitely help things out. Going US T2 can be a huge gamble if the OKW pulls out a T3 and then there's literally no counter to Puma or Flak Half Track until fast Sherman rush.

The other really huge problem with the meta is that US's lack of dependable AT is made so much worse because of the lack of mines. If Rear Echelon could build mines like every other faction then countering both light vehicles early and heavy tanks later would be much more fair and balanced.

Great post, I agree. US AT is in a terrible spot right now until they get Jacksons, and even then it's still probably the worse among all factions save for Soviets without doctrinal heavies. In particular, having all AT in one tier and AI in the other just seems like a poor decision, especially when contrasted with OKW who can get everything they need out of one building, even moreso if they go T3.

Relic seems to actually think zookas are fine, since they were nerfed in the last big patch. I have no idea how they possibly came to that conclusion. The damn thing sucks. So long as the tank is a P4 or bigger, it has basically nothing to fear from zooks thanks to their awful penetration. If it's smaller, then their abysmal accuracy probably means that they will miss anyway. I once used a flame HT, drove it right into a Captain, who missed one of their shots and had to get out of dodge. That was just embarassing.

@TNrg; uh, Luchs in anything but T4 would be horribly broken. It means that OKW only needs to gather 50 fuel (they already have 40 for tier) before basically getting a T-70 out. The damn thing would wipe out the map almost immediately.

also, try ISU 152, great kubel counter

Main gun destroy/engine damage and the kubels go back to repair


Productive post:
-Zooks needs some kind of buff. I don't want them to be Carl Gustavs but i guess making them hit vehicles is too much to ask right?
-Kubel could get some kind of vehicle size increase. I remember it's something like 25%/50% f/n to hit it with a zook. So even if you "rush" zooks to deal with Kubels, you still need to hit it 3 times with a 25%-35% at most.

You can't even one shot the kubel with the ZiS lol

good infantry micro CAN beat an early kubel. you know why? because ive lost kubels to good infantry micro and ive also killed kubels with good infantry micro (albeit conscripts).

like, you can hear the kubel in fog of war and you can see it crush foliage, and with some map knowledge you'll know where the opponenet will want to rush his kubel to (fuel, cutoffs, etc). with this in mind spread your units out and prepare for his rush. when he comes into sight, encircle him with the few squads you have in the start so no more than 1 squad is suppressed at a time and that hes forced to relocate. chase him off, and chase his sturmpios off too.

hes sacrificed capping power for the gamble that youre gonna group your units and force you off using suppression. if you keep your units spread and attack from atleast 2 directions youll beat the kubel.

aimstrong gives pretty good insight here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3IbT5CcHx0 when sib tries to rush his cutoff with a sturm and kubel. its soviets but the concept remains the same.

As many have pointed out, this isn't a tech problem it's a unit balance issue:

1. Kubel- It's a T0 pure manpower unit. It shouldn't be forcing anyone to tech to counter it. Unfortunately it's overperforming, so many players are choosing to tech to hard-counter it, which makes things predictable for the OKW to counter their counters.

2. Bazookas- This upgrade would have saved your opponent from the counters you pulled out. It should have countered the puma making it real hard to chase the M20 and should have contributed in holding off the panther as well. Unfortunately, it is underperforming on pretty much all of it's aspects and it would have been a useless investment.

aimstrong gives pretty good insight here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3IbT5CcHx0 when sib tries to rush his cutoff with a sturm and kubel. its soviets but the concept remains the same.

2 Kubel opening is a bit of an overkill. Thing is, he also missmicro his SP leaving them out of combat pretty early (he was building barbwire while a con was hitting him from behind).

Also, soviets are not handicapped against the Kubel, USF is the one that have problems with it. You can overwhelm a bit easier if you go 3/4 cons rather than 2/3 Rifles early game.

you can still overwhelm a kubel with just 2 rifles. attacking from 2 different locations forces the kubel to move or die. even if its suppressing one the other rifle + RE can kill it rather quickly.

Ok, everyone predominantly playing the Axis factions.

Listen to the concerns voiced here. They are true. OKW is able to hard counter every US "rush" unit as soon as it hits the field. You literally can negate his tech and leave the USF player with nothing but a bunch of rifles and a big mp bleed.

Thats balance.

Flamepost invised.

Back on topic.

I see kubel! No worries, let me give few mins and I will kill it with M20!
M20 appears - I'll rip your guts you little nasty kubel!! Ooops! Is that was Panzersch... BOOM!
Okey, okey... Now I will suppress you with my halftruck! Die you germans!! Leiutenant, I can see Puma is aiming in us, or maybe it's Jadgpanzer! Run, Run! Fall back!!
____
Captain, your bazookas are awesome! Kill for us that kubel!
Ok ok soldiers! Give me just 3 shots with chance to hit 30% or call Stuart.
Stuart is targeting Kubel! What the..? BOOM!
Captain, Struat died due to Puma or maybe Jadgpanzer.



On the other hand and a little more seriously.
I can see as USF that OKW guy went for T2. He can get Jadgpanzer and this wierd howizter (I will never rememver name.. And don;t tell me it's shitty cause it's awesome just like USF one).
Ok so which tier I should go to counter heavy Tank Killer and ranged infatry killer?
Maybe OKW guy went for T3. He can get Puma, Stuka and halftruk. So Which USF tier can counter that?

As OKW I just give a f**k about enemy's tier cause I have great AI and AT in every tier, even T1!
As USF you need to decide and even then you don't have any hard counters.

Anyone remember in COH: TOV when the Panzer Elite halftrack's suppression value was bugged and gave it nearly MG42-grade suppression? You basically had to get Langres in 1v1 maps to win just because of structure positioning.



Yeah, that was broken. It also didn't last too long.


Guess what I think about kubbies?


The idea that anyone is willing to defend a tier 0 unit that costs about as much as a conscript, as mobile as an M3 scout car and can lock down fuel sectors for a good 2, 3, 4 minutes if played correctly from a faction that is generally seen as being the one with the end game is laughable.



Remember, the Ameri-Burger-Bus got nerfed to 1 CP and basically nerfing the commander into not existing because of how "good" it was.