PAK 40 is overperforming when compared to other AT guns

Jump back to quoted post9 Oct 2014, 23:10 PMJaigen

Because you are wrong and not a little bit 2. Of all the non doctrinal units the ostheer has the only ones capable of dealing with the soviet heavy armour before reach the panther is the pak and only the pak. nerfing it would completely undermine the ostheer ability to counter soviet callin heavies effectively.,

if the pak was in the okw i would agree with you. as the okw is loaded up to its gills with dedicated tank destroyers and a panther thats much easier to buy then the ost panther.

Jump back to quoted post9 Oct 2014, 23:10 PMJaigen

Because you are wrong and not a little bit 2. Of all the non doctrinal units the ostheer has the only ones capable of dealing with the soviet heavy armour before reach the panther is the pak and only the pak. nerfing it would completely undermine the ostheer ability to counter soviet callin heavies effectively.,

if the pak was in the okw i would agree with you. as the okw is loaded up to its gills with dedicated tank destroyers and a panther thats much easier to buy then the ost panther.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 03:57 AMacosn

So it is fine for the Ostheer to have a unit in tier 2 that costs no fuel and no munitions to have nearly twice the DPS of comparable AT guns and much more armor penetration while fighting softer targets because the only other counter for Soviet heavy tanks- something not every player will field- is Panthers?


But it is perfectly acceptable that the US has to field M36's to deal with German heavy tanks? Mind you, the OKW can field heavy tanks as a faction without even needing to pick a commander.



Anyone else find it ironic that the US has to have a push-botton ability to make their AT guns viable against armor, while the Ostheer has it built in, while fighting softer armor?

Jump back to quoted post8 Oct 2014, 05:39 AMbraciszek

I havent had a problem against the pak 40, but the USF 57mm AT gun is crap to me, and the R43 cant seem to hit anything...

It takes 3 USF AT guns to scare off a panther, and you need to spend munitions in order to get penetration that is close to normal AT guns. Range in this case doesnt help that much when the AT gun bounces off of everything... and it will die trying to kill a tank, and then you lose all your vet that was needed to make the AT gun useful in the first place.

Raketen takes too long to aim and misses when it tries to shoot somthing. It is only good in buildings and nothing more.

However, vet actually makes it plausible. But for the USF AT gun, i see no bastion. It has failed me time and time again and i have laughed at it with my tanks time and time again.

Give ZiS back its original, useful vet ability, and ill be fine with it.

Target weak point is a very strong ability, but i still dont get the deal why the target weak point for pak 40/pak 43 is different than target weak point on tanks.The TWP on tanks tracks other tanks. TWP on the AT guns targets the ground where the tank once was. What is the deal with this?

Its as trivial a bug as not being able to buy back rifleman flamers and DP's and PTRS on Guards. Its like that easy math problem that you are too lazy to complete, but you know how to solve it because it is solved the same way as the other problems you already did. Its really embarrassing since its been around for many months..

Jump back to quoted post8 Oct 2014, 05:39 AMbraciszek

Target weak point is a very strong ability, but i still dont get the deal why the target weak point for pak 40/pak 43 is different than target weak point on tanks.The TWP on tanks tracks other tanks. TWP on the AT guns targets the ground where the tank once was. What is the deal with this?

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 03:57 AMacosn

So it is fine for the Ostheer to have a unit in tier 2 that costs no fuel and no munitions to have nearly twice the DPS of comparable AT guns and much more armor penetration while fighting softer targets because the only other counter for Soviet heavy tanks- something not every player will field- is Panthers?

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 00:17 AMZeaviS

And how is a soviet player fielding a heavy before you can field a panther? who said anything about making paks completely ineffective against soviet heavies? They are already more effective against tanks than a SU-85. Maybe it should be harder to beat a soviet heavy than just fielding one pak40, similar to how soviets need more than just a zis to beat an axis heavy.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 09:30 AMJaigen

Because thats how the current meta works. Soviets forego teching and wait till they have access to 85,is2 or kv1's. This gives them a rather huge mp and fuel advantage.
Simply put teching up to tier 3 or 4 as ostheer is suicidal. even if you get tanks out they will be of significant lower quality in the case of tier 3. p4 vs 85 is a lopsided affair in favour for the 85. in the case of tier 4 your panther will be outnumbered 3 to 1.

Now the allies on the other hand can tech up and get some very good TD's in form of the su85 and jackson not to mention their medium tank callins are nearly as powerful their td's.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 10:51 AMKamfrenchie

but then we can assume ostheer is doing the same with tiger or tiger ace no ?


I also don't get the hate for racketen
Sure it has trouble hitting m3, but i find it hits tanks fairly reliable, vets fairly fast, penetrates often, and is cheap. I always try stealing them when i can.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 04:25 AMwongtp

57mm gun for paradrop with crew please.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 12:37 PMJohnnyB

+ crewed paradroped .50 cal.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 11:21 AMJaigen

not entirely since the 85 callins are still better then the tiger tank. and the ace can come out to late. and as i said before its entirely possible for the soviets and usf to pump out their TD's (most simply refuse to do so in 1 vs 1) but not for the ostheer.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 13:38 PMSeeker

I feel that would be abused a lot, imagine them dropping a crewed weapon near tank that is repairing or on cutoff/fuel/muni. I would be ok with it if they made it LOS only.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 09:23 AMJaigen

Yes it is. Jacksons are without a doubt the best TD's currently in the game. And in the OKW is in the same boat, they to need to invest fuel into TD's to deal with soviet heavies. or any other tank for that matter because while you complain about the usf AT gun its still better vanilla state then the rakttenwerfer.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 09:30 AMJaigen

Because thats how the current meta works. Soviets forego teching and wait till they have access to 85,is2 or kv1's. This gives them a rather huge mp and fuel advantage.
Simply put teching up to tier 3 or 4 as ostheer is suicidal. even if you get tanks out they will be of significant lower quality in the case of tier 3. p4 vs 85 is a lopsided affair in favour for the 85. in the case of tier 4 your panther will be outnumbered 3 to 1.

Now the allies on the other hand can tech up and get some very good TD's in form of the su85 and jackson not to mention their medium tank callins are nearly as powerful their td's.

• It kills a Stuart tank in 2 shots and forces the Stuart to be used extremely cautiously otherwise you lose a major fuel investment. It is incredibly easy to kill the Stuart on the majority of 1v1 maps as Ostheer if you listen in the fog of war and have a sense of timing. If the Stuart is within a certain position of the Pak40, even at full health it will die unless the pak40 misses (rare).
  
• USF can only win the infantry MP war currently through good vehicle play due to weakness of Rifles transitioning in the mid/late game. The pak40 can completely shut this down on the majority of 1v1 maps and you end up losing both the infantry and armour wars as USF purely from LMG grens/pak40 and maybe one P4.
  

• Buff Stuart health so that it can withstand 2 Pak40 shots. 2 Pak40 shots + panzerfaust should result in a kill though.
  
• Buff BAR upgrades so LMG grens can actually be countered without armour or burning through munitions on smoke/pineapple grenades at every single engagement.
  

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 17:30 PMStephennJF

Pak40 is balanced verse SOV.

Pak40 is unbalanced verse USF for the reasons including:

• It kills a Stuart tank in 2 shots and forces the Stuart to be used extremely cautiously otherwise you lose a major fuel investment. It is incredibly easy to kill the Stuart on the majority of 1v1 maps as Ostheer if you listen in the fog of war and have a sense of timing. If the Stuart is within a certain position of the Pak40, even at full health it will die unless the pak0 miss (rare).
  
• USF can only win the infantry MP war currently through good vehicle play due to weakness of Rifles transitioning in the mid/late game. The pak40 can completely shut this down on the majority of 1v1 maps and you end up losing both the infantry and armour wars as USF purely from LMG grens/pak40 and maybe one P4.
  

My balance suggestion would not be to nerf the pak40 at all but buff other USF units to compensate as otherwise you will effect the Soviet match up. Suggested changes include:

• Buff stuart health so that it can withstand 2 Pak40 shots. 2 Pak40 shots + panzerfaust should result in a kill though.
  
• Buff BAR upgrades so LMG grens can actually be countered without armour or burning through munitions on smoke/pineapple grenades at every single engagement.
  

At the moment I believe OST is incredibly easy to play verse USF once you handle the early AAHT/M20 from them on the majority of maps. LMG gren, pak40 and P4 is all you need.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 17:30 PMStephennJF

Pak40 is balanced verse SOV.

Pak40 is unbalanced verse USF for the reasons including:

• It kills a Stuart tank in 2 shots and forces the Stuart to be used extremely cautiously otherwise you lose a major fuel investment. It is incredibly easy to kill the Stuart on the majority of 1v1 maps as Ostheer if you listen in the fog of war and have a sense of timing. If the Stuart is within a certain position of the Pak40, even at full health it will die unless the pak40 misses (rare).
  
• USF can only win the infantry MP war currently through good vehicle play due to weakness of Rifles transitioning in the mid/late game. The pak40 can completely shut this down on the majority of 1v1 maps and you end up losing both the infantry and armour wars as USF purely from LMG grens/pak40 and maybe one P4.
  

My balance suggestion would not be to nerf the pak40 at all but buff other USF units to compensate as otherwise you will effect the Soviet match up. Suggested changes include:

• Buff Stuart health so that it can withstand 2 Pak40 shots. 2 Pak40 shots + panzerfaust should result in a kill though.
  
• Buff BAR upgrades so LMG grens can actually be countered without armour or burning through munitions on smoke/pineapple grenades at every single engagement.
  

At the moment I believe OST is incredibly easy to play verse USF once you handle the early AAHT/M20 from them on the majority of maps. LMG gren, pak40 and P4 is all you need. The suggested changes will also permit USF to actually use T3 verse OST opposed to having to go T2 every single game! I am sick and tired of the USF meta where only 1 stratergy is viable on the majority of maps. Boring.