PAK 40 is overperforming when compared to other AT guns

I dunno about this. I'm fine with Ost having a better AT gun. The only thing that bothers me about it is the fact that the latency is so bad in some matches that I can't reverse vehicles out of range quickly enough to avoid the second shot. It's cost me quite a few Jacksons and AAHTs.

Just because you suck at something doesn't mean you have to bring everybody else down with you. Same thing here with the Pak40, just because this units is good no need to nerf it and make it useless. Instead buff the rest and bring them to the same level of performance.

Also lets not forget that in general allies tanks have less HP/Armor than the axis tanks. So when that pak hits it might look that is doing more dmg than it should be.

Off topic:
People complaining this days for everything... bugs are one thing but now thread after thread on "This is OP". I won't be surprise if someone complains about base mg's too, that's the only thing left no one complaint about yet.

why so bitter?

but i agree with you, AT guns need to scare tanks more. i think though, rather than OP, AT guns across the board must be fine tuned. make everything into paks and light tanks wont be seen. Zis needs a small rof increase, paks need a slight rof nerf, a very small one so it doesnt 2 shot light vehicles the moment they drive into range.

57mm needs a good buff for being the other only AT after jacksons. AP rounds should never bounce off anything even the JT/KT. regular shots should pen medium tanks regularly.

I dunno about this. I'm fine with Ost having a better AT gun. The only thing that bothers me about it is the fact that the latency is so bad in some matches that I can't reverse vehicles out of range quickly enough to avoid the second shot. It's cost me quite a few Jacksons and AAHTs.

Well, given that Ost has better AT in every single other department...

Surely you can't be serious. 340 MP for a decent AI unit that synergizes well with a Pak (prevents close range flank) and when enemy armor appears, can boost your AT capabilities at a sacrifice of 50% of it's AI DPS?

Let's try not to go too far off-topic here but yes, I don't find them very useful. Obviously they are not the worst unit ever but I really really don't like them. Maybe I should watch some top-player replays and see how they use them?

I think the pak40 does it's job and does it well. I'm really on the fence of whether it should be nerfed or not. I think it could easily be increased in price to 340 or 350 and still be worth it. If it is nerfed, it should not be more than a half second in rate of fire.

Raketenwerfer is shitty, not really sure what to do about it.

I have called for a Zis rof buff for a year, people told me it was fine here.

57mm is pretty good, but the ap rounds need a stronger bonus, they shouldn't still be pink pink on big armor. I don't care if not's realistic, it is the AT weapon relic put in the game. Until there is a bigger at gun, at least the ap rounds need to sink in.

The Pak costs 360 manpower...just like the Zis Gun.
Raketenwerfer and M1 57mm cost 270 manpower. So the pak should outperform those two.
If anything at all the Zis could use a rof buff, nothing else.


Is it latest trend to scan through every axis unit and ability and declare it OP? Have I missed something?

The Pak costs 360 manpower...just like the Zis Gun.
Raketenwerfer and M1 57mm cost 270 manpower. So the pak should outperform those two.
If anything at all the Zis could use a rof buff, nothing else.


Is it latest trend to scan through every axis unit and ability and declare it OP? Have I missed something?

*320 manpower.

The difference in cost is not thus that large. It makes sense for the 57mm, but the Raketen is just not worth 280 mp IMO. Then again, OKW does not really need buffs globaly, but if one of their unit needs a change, this is the one.

I seem to be out of touch with the at gun costs for ost and sov for some reason. I'm ashamed of myself.

I like raketens; but then I don't use them as main line at.

I stick them in buildings to protect trucks from armour push or screen flanks; there they are self-microing and usually not the target everything is going to be shooting at.

In the last resort they are expendable too.



It's not like OKW is otherwise lacking in AT options

Pretty must all Ost players when losing spam paks and Ostwinds

When people are losing they are usually losing to tanks and have no fuel

Spamming AT then seems reasonable regardless of faction

You guys fail to realize AT guns are meant to be a support weapon, not a whole AT solution. The PAK should be more brought into the line with the ZIS. The pak is just death to allied weapons. I two paks are more dangerous than one tiger in my book.

You guys fail to realize AT guns are meant to be a support weapon, not a whole AT solution. The PAK should be more brought into the line with the ZIS. The pak is just death to allied weapons. I two paks are more dangerous than one tiger in my book.

Soviets have lots of ways to deal with PaKs, and their doctrinal armor kinda shits all over them if well used (and ISU is obviously a no brainer). Non-doctrinal mortars, non-doctrinal artillery, ZiS barrage, snipers, elite infantry that has a modicum of durability, they usually aren't a big problem for me as Soviets.

US is another ballgame. Your only non-doctrinal artillery is the shitty and overpriced pack howie, and the M8 barely outranges them and so is dangerous to use. The Priest takes care of them, but it's doctrinal and going Infantry robs you of the crucial Airborne strafe vs heavies. You have no non-doctrinal mortars, no snipers, your infantry has crap durability unless they're Airborne, and unless you went Rifle company or (lol) Armor you have virtually no tanks that can take hits.

It is not Pak over-performing, it is the others under-performing.

Zis suck a little bit compensate with bullshit barrage ability, 57mm are fine.
Rakentenwerfer is a joke since nerf.

My partner in 2's and myself have no issues utilizing the Zis, its fantastic IMO but yes the Pak is very strong, but also a very singularly geared unit. Interesting topic, but from personal play I find the Pak 40 a minimal concern. Ya know with the stuka, obers and so forth that you cant just throw a Molotov on so easy.

Please, don't forget that raketen comes from T0, can retreat and has great vet bonuses.

It is not match for the other ATguns but on the other hand it doesn't need any tech investment and has the best survivality. (And it comes in a faction without AT fighting issues unlike soviets)

^ this

I usually make 2 of these every game as OKW. They suck at first, but combined with volks upgraded with shreks they work well for me. They are cheap so I don't worry about wasting the MP. Once vetted they always kick some ass. I do tend to consider them more of a stop gap AT option, I don't rely on them all game like someone may with the other 3 factions' AT gun options.

P.S. Pak43 for prez!

I havent had a problem against the pak 40, but the USF 57mm AT gun is crap to me, and the R43 cant seem to hit anything...

It takes 3 USF AT guns to scare off a panther, and you need to spend munitions in order to get penetration that is close to normal AT guns. Range in this case doesnt help that much when the AT gun bounces off of everything... and it will die trying to kill a tank, and then you lose all your vet that was needed to make the AT gun useful in the first place.

Raketen takes too long to aim and misses when it tries to shoot somthing. It is only good in buildings and nothing more.

However, vet actually makes it plausible. But for the USF AT gun, i see no bastion. It has failed me time and time again and i have laughed at it with my tanks time and time again.

Give ZiS back its original, useful vet ability, and ill be fine with it.

Target weak point is a very strong ability, but i still dont get the deal why the target weak point for pak 40/pak 43 is different than target weak point on tanks.The TWP on tanks tracks other tanks. TWP on the AT guns targets the ground where the tank once was. What is the deal with this?

Its as trivial a bug as not being able to buy back rifleman flamers and DP's and PTRS on Guards. Its like that easy math problem that you are too lazy to complete, but you know how to solve it because it is solved the same way as the other problems you already did. Its really embarrassing since its been around for many months..

my only issue with the pak is the interaction between it and the USF AAHT. basically unlesss you get hit at max range of the pak no matter how fast you react it is insta dead to the second shot. its so frustrating.

LOL Ciez predicted this. People denying the fact that the pak is overperforming

Ciez wins the internet today!

People will argue anything German is performing to spec because it is German.

Here are stats to put things in perspective

Damage statistics

Pak40 - 40-32 dps / 210-190 pen
ZIS3 - 27-22 dps / 200-180 pen
R43 - 31-26 dps /200-180 pen
57MM - 37-22 dps /140-115 pen


To put these numbers in perspective the KT does 38Dps, the Jackson does 33 dps the panther does 21 dps

The paks damage numbers are really high, i think nerfing the reload a little but perhaps increasing penetration would make it a little more specialized and less well...better in every way. It should be a step up from the zis, but to make it basically do 50% more damage against tanks that will always be penetrated aside from doctrines is a bit much

This right here, the pak does way too much damage for a faction that already has better armor than the allies.

Just because you suck at something doesn't mean you have to bring everybody else down with you. Same thing here with the Pak40, just because this units is good no need to nerf it and make it useless. Instead buff the rest and bring them to the same level of performance.

Also lets not forget that in general allies tanks have less HP/Armor than the axis tanks. So when that pak hits it might look that is doing more dmg than it should be.

Off topic:
People complaining this days for everything... bugs are one thing but now thread after thread on "This is OP". I won't be surprise if someone complains about base mg's too, that's the only thing left no one complaint about yet.

Why does the pak40 need to do almost double the DPS against tanks than other AT weapons? It's not just about it's performance specifically, but it's performance within the faction. Axis, already have great armor, and panzerschreks, why does the pak40 need to also be twice as effective as other AT guns?

Why does the pak40 need to do almost double the DPS against tanks than other AT weapons? It's not just about it's performance specifically, but it's performance within the faction. Axis, already have great armor, and panzerschreks, why does the pak40 need to also be twice as effective as other AT guns?

Because you are wrong and not a little bit 2. Of all the non doctrinal units the ostheer has the only ones capable of dealing with the soviet heavy armour before reach the panther is the pak and only the pak. nerfing it would completely undermine the ostheer ability to counter soviet callin heavies effectively.,

if the pak was in the okw i would agree with you. as the okw is loaded up to its gills with dedicated tank destroyers and a panther thats much easier to buy then the ost panther.