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russian armor

My problem with OKW and USF

10 Oct 2014, 09:06 AM
#21
avatar of Seeker

Posts: 83

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 09:02 AMtuvok

you can blob 2 pgrens with shrecks+2 grens with lmgs just like you can blob 4 rifles (2 zooks+2 bars), I don't really see the difference


Yes, but Ostheer, for example, can get MG42s and mortars too, even snipers. USF get, Riflemen and Rear Echelon. Even Soviets can get Maxims, Mortars and AT guns in one tier, USF get AT gun separate from MG.
10 Oct 2014, 09:06 AM
#22
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 08:21 AMJorad
There is a second unit in the USF that works with Rifleman the Rear Echelon, but with the nerf the Volley Fire had the RE is now a fighting position garisson nothing else.
Whoever said that you should use the RE to 1v1. Use a riflemen to take the force while the RE volley them. Still works.
10 Oct 2014, 09:12 AM
#23
avatar of Jorad

Posts: 209

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 09:06 AMsteel
Whoever said that you should use the RE to 1v1. Use a riflemen to take the force while the RE volley them. Still works.


The problem is whenever i use the Volley fire to support my Rifleman its a gamble will or will it not supress the enemy in most cases it fails to do soo and it cost 20 muni. If they redesign Volley fire then the USF could have something like the Kubelwagon but less moble.
10 Oct 2014, 09:25 AM
#24
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 09:12 AMJorad


The problem is whenever i use the Volley fire to support my Rifleman its a gamble will or will it not supress the enemy in most cases it fails to do soo and it cost 20 muni. If they redesign Volley fire then the USF could have something like the Kubelwagon but less moble.
Bad RNG i guess. It never fails for me. Though I agree with you that it's a gamble. Needs to be at a middle ground between the original and current stats.
10 Oct 2014, 10:32 AM
#25
avatar of Jorad

Posts: 209

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 09:25 AMsteel
Bad RNG i guess. It never fails for me. Though I agree with you that it's a gamble. Needs to be at a middle ground between the original and current stats.

Yes most abilities that cost something should be to a point reliable for example 70% of succces. Bitz for example (a massive topic on the forum) is worikng as intended no Rng.
10 Oct 2014, 12:22 PM
#26
avatar of elchino7
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Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 09:25 AMsteel
Bad RNG i guess. It never fails for me. Though I agree with you that it's a gamble. Needs to be at a middle ground between the original and current stats.


Thing is, unless you are inside a building, you are gonna get focus fired before supression hits. Remember you get +50% receive accuracy while active.
10 Oct 2014, 13:54 PM
#27
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

Why wouldn't you blob OKW? They got great infantry such as Obers and Falls for AI and sturdy Schreck Volks. Basically blobbing them allows you to have a death ball that kills everything. Since they are durable, you can blob them without fear of too much incoming dmaage
10 Oct 2014, 14:10 PM
#28
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 13:54 PMNinjaWJ
Why wouldn't you blob OKW? They got great infantry such as Obers and Falls for AI and sturdy Schreck Volks. Basically blobbing them allows you to have a death ball that kills everything. Since they are durable, you can blob them without fear of too much incoming dmaage
And a 203mm shell slowly descends from the blue sky, every man recalling his life's events and saying one final goodbye to their loved ones in their heads.

Some people are plain masochists like me I guess?
10 Oct 2014, 14:29 PM
#29
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
I would normally be agaisnt main line infrantry getting AT (volks)

Yet it would be un fair due to the fact that a usf player can equip any infantry unit with double zooks

My problem with usf is how bad they scale.

Mt solution: Buff pen on zooks

Make bars perform simulary to fg42's like they did in real life

buff 57mm penetration

buff jackson penetration
10 Oct 2014, 14:46 PM
#30
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

I would normally be agaisnt main line infrantry getting AT (volks)

Yet it would be un fair due to the fact that a usf player can equip any infantry unit with double zooks

My problem with usf is how bad they scale.

Mt solution: Buff pen on zooks

Make bars perform simulary to fg42's like they did in real life

buff 57mm penetration

buff jackson penetration


Bazooka penetration buff: Approved
BAR buff: Can't say anything
57mm penetration buff: Approved. The 57mm could penetrate a Tiger reliably with the new ammunition that was used 1944 onwards.
M36 penetration buff: Definitely needed. The way I see it, you could just steal a Pak 40 which is more reliable and easier to get vets.
10 Oct 2014, 14:55 PM
#31
avatar of Romeo
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Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

bazookas don't really need better penetration. They need accuracy. If bazookas get a huge penetration buff then we'll just have super zook blobs running around instead of super shreck blobs. With an accuracy buff they'll actually work against what they're meant to counter: light vehicles. Similarly they should perform well on flanks against enemy armor, but poorly from the front.

Yes the BAR desperately needs a buff.

Yes the 57mm AT gun needs a SMALL buff. It performs horribly against heavy armor without spending a ton of munitions but its Take Aim ability and insane rate of fire shouldn't be written off. I think its AP rounds ability needs a buff though. If you spend the munitions for AP rounds, I think they should never bounce. Maybe very rarely vs super heavies.

Jackson is fine. Honestly if the Jackson penetrated every shot it would be insanely OP.
10 Oct 2014, 15:07 PM
#32
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 14:55 PMRomeo
bazookas don't really need better penetration. They need accuracy. If bazookas get a huge penetration buff then we'll just have super zook blobs running around instead of super shreck blobs. With an accuracy buff they'll actually work against what they're meant to counter: light vehicles. Similarly they should perform well on flanks against enemy armor, but poorly from the front.

Yes the BAR desperately needs a buff.

Yes the 57mm AT gun needs a SMALL buff. It performs horribly against heavy armor without spending a ton of munitions but its Take Aim ability and insane rate of fire shouldn't be written off. I think its AP rounds ability needs a buff though. If you spend the munitions for AP rounds, I think they should never bounce. Maybe very rarely vs super heavies.

Jackson is fine. Honestly if the Jackson penetrated every shot it would be insanely OP.
If we give the bazooka an accuracy buff then it would still be useless against tanks. The bazookas were made to counter tanks after all. At the very least it should be able to penetrate a Panzer IV consistently. It only has 130/120/110 penetration and 80 damage which means it can barely scare a Panzer IV let alone harm it.

The 57mm needs a buff to its base penetration. Its current penetration is 140/125/115. When it was first used by the British it could already penetrate any tank in service which were the Panzer I to Panzer IV. Maybe buff it to 160/145/135.

The M36 is an issue. IRL, it had quite thick armour and a gun that could penetrate the armour of panthers and tigers at long range as well as the speed to run away. In game it has none of those except the speed.
Relic made the M36 this way for balance but I think it's just silly. That thing costs a lot of fuel (125 I think? Can't remember since I'm taking a break from my slump) yet it's less scary than 2 M10s. Something really needs to be done.

:ot:

Good luck with your tournament tomorrow. :)
10 Oct 2014, 15:14 PM
#33
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 14:55 PMRomeo
bazookas don't really need better penetration. They need accuracy. If bazookas get a huge penetration buff then we'll just have super zook blobs running around instead of super shreck blobs. With an accuracy buff they'll actually work against what they're meant to counter: light vehicles. Similarly they should perform well on flanks against enemy armor, but poorly from the front.

Yes the BAR desperately needs a buff.

Yes the 57mm AT gun needs a SMALL buff. It performs horribly against heavy armor without spending a ton of munitions but its Take Aim ability and insane rate of fire shouldn't be written off. I think its AP rounds ability needs a buff though. If you spend the munitions for AP rounds, I think they should never bounce. Maybe very rarely vs super heavies.

Jackson is fine. Honestly if the Jackson penetrated every shot it would be insanely OP.


Accuracy buff is not needed

It needs a pen buff. It makes no sense that zooks have a hard time penetrating panther side and rear armor.

Jackson really needs a penetration buff. Its literally 50/50 it should be more like 70/30 imho
10 Oct 2014, 15:15 PM
#34
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

When i play with USF, i dont blob (i dont blob in general) and i lose most of the games because of that. I dont like it and i never do it.
I like to play "correct", it is more fun.
But i understand the point from the OP.
10 Oct 2014, 15:19 PM
#35
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 14:10 PMsteel
And a 203mm shell slowly descends from the blue sky, every man recalling his life's events and saying one final goodbye to their loved ones in their heads.

Some people are plain masochists like me I guess?


Im saying they almost become invulnerable to bullets which is silly.
10 Oct 2014, 15:25 PM
#36
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2014, 15:19 PMNinjaWJ


Im saying they almost become invulnerable to bullets which is silly.
Yes, I know. I think they need a nerf to their survivability especially their volksgrenadiere. Those guys cost 235 mp and but have shock troops survivability.
10 Oct 2014, 15:42 PM
#37
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
y do volks cost less than cons. yet, outperform them?
10 Oct 2014, 23:30 PM
#38
avatar of Seeker

Posts: 83

y do volks cost less than cons. yet, outperform them?


I believe it is because they are horrible without schrecks, they kind of need them to get vet fast.
11 Oct 2014, 05:04 AM
#39
avatar of acosn

Posts: 108 | Subs: 1

y do volks cost less than cons. yet, outperform them?



Asymmetrical balance.



In honesty, its because of vet. That and, in spite of the presence of the Racky at tier 0, having panzershreks.
11 Oct 2014, 05:55 AM
#40
avatar of GTTV

Posts: 68

Completely agree. Blobbing really does take away from the strategic feel of the game. It needs to be fixed somehow.

These units can still be used now without blobbing but the power of blobbing makes it far too good to not blob. With a little bit of micro to dodge grenades and the like its just super powerful. The game is at the stage where you'd be stupid not to blob at least once in a game.

But this really shouldn't be a dynamic of the game. Blobbing really feels so cheesey and like it really doesn't belong in this type of game.

Something needs to change to fix this but I'm a bit at a loss on how. Some people have suggested a received accuracy debuff when you blob, which makes sense and could help. But at the moment I feel like especially US HAVE to blob to push anywhere. So coupled with deterrents to blobbing there will probably need to some tweaks to balance as well.
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