It's time to nerf OKW late game

1. Removed shrecks for OKW volks and in exchange for faust/anti-tank grenade and assault package (stg44 + MP40).

2. 3-men Sturmpios with pre-nerf dps but with current received accuracy of 0.8 at 280MP

3. Revised OKW veterency especially OKW (vet 3/4/5) elite infantry Falls/Ober (make them less superhuman)

4. Walking stuka needs AOE nerf and increase scatter with range

5. Flak halftrack ROF decrease by 1/2 and FU increase.

6. KT cap to 1 per player. Jagdtiger 1 time call-in like Tiger Ace.

7. shrecks penetration nerf to 160/140/120.

8. OKW to receive 100% MUN and FU and scale all units and upgrades to cost 33% more. Grenades and other MUN abilities to be unadjusted to prevent hampering of MUN based abilities. MUN and FU conversion to adjust accordingly

9. OKW now requires to build sWS trucks for 200MP, 40s buildtime. Cost of Building T2&T3&T4 is adjusted. No more early game truck pushing.

10. Kubel stats nerf - DPS, acceleration, target size. It nows require 3 sec setup time.

11. Puma penetration nerf from 160/140/120 to 120/110/100. I find it odd that 50mm cannon could outperform a 75mm StugIII cannon

Oh, oh, I got some too! Reduce volks squads to 4 men and make them no better than Osttruppen. Replace the obers lmg34 with an mp40. But what am I saying? Remove them from game! They are to damn' OP anyway! Reduce Fallschirm health and make them cost 800 mp! Reduce JLI squad to 3 and make them cost 600 mp. And please, please, nurf that fuckin' raketenwerfer it's taking 10% of my shermann health every time it fires!!! That's unfair!

Which is why I said the game balance should flow up from 1v1 and not down from 4v4, many people just want 3v3 and 4v4 to be balanced and state that the game will only grow with those two game modes, because they like to play them. Everyone likes what they like right? And if you don't you are an Axis/Allies fan-boy who should L2P or not take the game so seriously.

As for growth of the game, people get interested in a game by seeing how players play it and most casts and videos done for this game and more competitive and popular games are from 1v1 and 2v2 replays. The reason being it is easier for the caster and the watcher to follow 2 or 4 players than it is for them to follow 6 or 8.

I am not saying I don't think 3v3 and 4v4 should be playable, but a lot of people are spouting that because 4v4 isn't perfectly balanced the game is dying and I truly disagree. Relic has already stated that previous RTS games balance for competitive 1v1 and 2v2 and that is how they grew such large player bases; therefore Relic is going to balance for 1v1 and 2v2 and let the balance fixes flow up to 3v3 and 4v4.

Yea fair point, when I re-read your statement I realised what you were driving at hence me editing the original post as you were responding mate.

Yea fair point, when I re-read your statement I realised what you were driving at hence me editing the original post as you were responding mate.

No problem, didn't want to start a flame war or anything, I find a lot of people (myself included) need to L2R(Learn to Read) and not overreact to the first sentence of a statement.

Which is why I said the game balance should flow up from 1v1 and not down from 4v4, many people just want 3v3 and 4v4 to be balanced and state that the game will only grow with those two game modes, because they like to play them. Everyone likes what they like right? And if you don't you are an Axis/Allies fan-boy who should L2P or not take the game so seriously.

As for growth of the game, people get interested in a game by seeing how players play it and most casts and videos done for this game and more competitive and popular games are from 1v1 and 2v2 replays. The reason being it is easier for the caster and the watcher to follow 2 or 4 players than it is for them to follow 6 or 8.

I am not saying I don't think 3v3 and 4v4 should be playable, but a lot of people are spouting that because 4v4 isn't perfectly balanced the game is dying and I truly disagree. Relic has already stated that previous RTS games balance for competitive 1v1 and 2v2 and that is how they grew such large player bases; therefore Relic is going to balance for 1v1 and 2v2 and let the balance fixes flow up to 3v3 and 4v4.

made me laugh, but this is a very good post. small imbalances gets magnified in teamgames with 4v4 being the worst victim

I agree that imbalances in 1v1 can become huge issues in big tema games. I think it is time to figure out if OKW are OP in 1v1 and 2v2 matches

I agree that imbalances in 1v1 can become huge issues in big tema games. I think it is time to figure out if OKW are OP in 1v1 and 2v2 matches

easy the kubel is OP, and stuka the rest is fine.

easy the kubel is OP, and stuka the rest is fine.

Agree on the Kübelwagen disagree on the Walking Stuka.

Imo it's usually very dogeable, has a reasonable cooldown and costs quite alot of resources.

stuka should be as fragile as the katyusha

stuka should be as fragile as the katyusha

no, just have less AOE and cost lease.

what I wnat to see:

Nurf kubel

nurf flak hq penetration

make okw pay for their lmg's for falls and obers

nurf stuka

give okw the 66% munitions back. IM TIRED OF SHREK BLOBS

make t34/85 non-doc

make priest non-doc

give usf elite troops equivalent to paras in t4 building

give usf pershing commander

buff zooks

buff Jackson pen

buff BARS

Wow, just wow.

Perfect example of why Relic balance team should largely ignore balance suggestions on community forums. Put the top players in closed beta and simply go from there.

I agree that imbalances in 1v1 can become huge issues in big tema games. I think it is time to figure out if OKW are OP in 1v1 and 2v2 matches

Here's a hint: It's not.

The game is remarkably close to balance in 1v1 and 2v2. Soviets have a slight edge in 1v1, but other than that we're close to where we need to be. Some tweaks are needed, yes, but we're very close.

Here's a hint: It's not.

The game is remarkably close to balance in 1v1 and 2v2. Soviets have a slight edge in 1v1, but other than that we're close to where we need to be. Some tweaks are needed, yes, but we're very close.

Wow. I hope you're sarcastic.

okw whether op or not, is rather subjective.

but allied AT is truly lacking, especially in the anti heavy tank department. US only real AT platform is the jackson, while AT guns are either a hit or miss with AP rounds and is a huge munition sink. bazookas are ineffective against anything heavier than puma and does only 80 damage for 60munitions which translate to crappy and expensive. once heavies pop by, they are as deadweight as ptrs.

as for soviets, AT guns are horrendously slow to fire, bad AT dps while cost the same as the superior pak while only having barrage @ 60munitions per use. while the barrage can be somewhat useful early on, its pretty useless once any sort of tanks hit the field, you need the AT gun to be ready to fire on tanks rather than hit infantry. against heavy tanks, king tiger/tiger ace have no issues trading shots with the AT gun, they can decrew and/or destroy the gun faster than the ZiS can shoot twice or thrice and in that 2-3 shots, more often than not, only 1 shot will penetrate.

compared to the pak vs the is2, the pak can reliably shoot 2 times upon contact and another 1 or 2 while the is2 is backing away, given that the 1st is2 shot will miss because the is2 fires before it gets into position. by then at least 2-3 shots would have penetrated and the is2 would have lost at least 320hp which is about a 3rd of its HP. that is very effective defensive counter.

1 way to do it is to use CPs to give direct boosts to non-doctrinal units. the vanilla support team versions are comparably inferior to paks and useless once heavies are fielded. CPs are usually a good indicator of the game timeframe. this will give all soviet AT crews a boost to their capabilities like increased fire rate.

i would argue vet will not be a good way to scale, especially when things are AT guns usually do not have escape plans and are easily decrewed/1 shotted by artillery or by infantry rushes/tank fire.

i suggest relic to start considering giving allied AT competitive advantages when they have already, BY DESIGN, lost out substantially in the heavy tank department. THIS is asymmetrical balance.

I suggest bazookas be lowered to 40 munitions, making them more attractive and less draining to upgrade with. Also the whole zis and pak thing has been argued over and over and really the only thing I could say is maybe lower zis RoF to 4 seconds. The pak has to have something over the zis and that would be its firerate. Also I think AT nades and molotovs could be combined into 1 upgrade package of say 200 mp and 35 fuel.

Getting tired of this OKW roflstomp of stuff when I attempt to play Merika'(especially late game). I've actually given up even after the patch "fix" today. Maybe when there's another big arse patch that does something I'll be interested, but for now RIP Merika', play at your own risk.

Is it really that bad, VonIvan?

Are soviets in a better place?

Is it really that bad, VonIvan?

Are soviets in a better place?

Yeah at least with Soviets you have some options to work with(even though late game is still tough).
Compared to Merika'.(And trust me when I say I've tried everything to make them work)

Usf is un-playable right now. They need a buff bad

What about soviets plus US in a 2v2? Still hopeless?

1v1 I'm going to take this opportunity of hopelessness to try some very strange strategies. First plan - RE spam into a fast M20, then zook spam and M1919 spam into spamming Jacksons.

Yesterday i played i 1v1. Me as Soviets against OKW. After 40 minutes the game seems to be at my favor, then... the KT arrives. I had 2 ZISs, 2 T34/76, Mines laid and AT Grenades. You think this would be enough? Of curse no. 12 shots from the ZISs, the KT laughed at them like this , NO Damage done. Of curse i lost the game.
Then i chatted with my opponent and he said "no Heavy's on your Doc?" I sad, "it would not matter anyway. He was right tho, i didn't have Call-ins because i chose"Soviet shock Army".

So, what is it that the Soviets have to do to Kill this freaking KT without Call-ins?
(is a rhetoric question btw)