Anyone have an inside scoop on the Relic balance team? Many others and I find it very irky that ass engies got an immediate hotfix but kubels they drag their feet for.
Ironically, kubel spam counters ass engie spam prehotfix.
But seriously, is someone on the team braindead or an axis fanboy or something? I heard there was a balance stream on twitch.
Relic balance team info
18 Sep 2014, 14:25 PM
#1
Posts: 395
18 Sep 2014, 14:29 PM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Balance is a really delicate thing, you need to take into account all variations and implications into account before making any changes.
18 Sep 2014, 14:56 PM
#3
Posts: 508 | Subs: 1
But sometimes an unexpected/undesired balance effect happens aswell. Or bugs make a way into the game. (Retreat bug which people are complaining about.)
18 Sep 2014, 15:15 PM
#4
Posts: 196
I think Kubel vs. Ass Eng is a slightly different case. Assault Engineers were a fairly clear-cut example of a doctrinal unit that was dramatically over-performing, and they were able to do this via hotfix because nerfing Assault Engineers didn't really affect the viability and playstyle of US as a whole.
Kubel is in a different spot. The Kubelwagen is a core unit that the OKW need to counter certain strategies. When the Kubel was useless in past patches, OKW were extremely vulnerable to being swarmed by infantry in the early game and were usually forced into MG34 doctrines as a result. Whilst the Kubel is currently over-performing, nerfing it could have more serious and wide-reaching consequences. Hopefully, Relic are either taking their time to find a suitable, non-rushed solution, or seeing how the Kubel stands once the meta has settled down in this patch (or both).
Kubel is in a different spot. The Kubelwagen is a core unit that the OKW need to counter certain strategies. When the Kubel was useless in past patches, OKW were extremely vulnerable to being swarmed by infantry in the early game and were usually forced into MG34 doctrines as a result. Whilst the Kubel is currently over-performing, nerfing it could have more serious and wide-reaching consequences. Hopefully, Relic are either taking their time to find a suitable, non-rushed solution, or seeing how the Kubel stands once the meta has settled down in this patch (or both).
18 Sep 2014, 15:32 PM
#5
Posts: 577
Assault Engineers are similar to Shock troops, PPSh41 Cons, Assault Grenadiers, Pios and other SMG type units. Their performance can easily be compared to those and if it differs a lot it is highly visible. Players are pretty knowledgeable about how to fight and counter such SMG units.
Kubel is a unique unit. There is no other such unit and people have never faced such a unit, so they might not yet know the best ways to counter it. This means there is not only a lack of comparison data, the data gathered the first few days is probably also flawed due to the meta still changing and people adapting (HueHue) to the new values. Both are reasons that require them to gather more data first before changing something.
Kubel is a unique unit. There is no other such unit and people have never faced such a unit, so they might not yet know the best ways to counter it. This means there is not only a lack of comparison data, the data gathered the first few days is probably also flawed due to the meta still changing and people adapting (HueHue) to the new values. Both are reasons that require them to gather more data first before changing something.
18 Sep 2014, 15:40 PM
#6
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
I have few data to prove it but in my opinion, what I'm describing below is close to the reality.
So why is always Axis buff and not seeing his high performing units downgraded.
We must start from a statement that Sov vs Ostheer is the most balanced matchup. And USF vs Ostheer is the next one that is not badly balanced. From my USF player perspective, it is my most enjoyable matchup since the release of WFA. In opposition, OKW vs Sov or vs USF is hurting the balance.
So we can consider from this statement below:
Sov vs Ostheer = balanced
USF vs Ostheer = balanced
OKW vs Sov = non-balanced
OKW vs USF = non-balanced
What dev are actually doing is pretty simple, they must balance the game with OKW faction, but they must make sure those balance decisions will not break down what is actually in place, this means neither moving Sov or USF units statistics too far, otherwise it would impact the balance with Ostheer faction. They decided to start balancing OKW with Sov. And for that, by only strongly moving OKW unit statistics so they're not messing up the balance with Ostheer.
And when They'll reach an acceptable level of balance, they start looking into the OKW vs USF matchup.
Why? Probably because they're fine with the Sov Meta. No the spamming early game, this is probably something they want to reduce, but the meta of having Sov dependent from their Doctrinal choice. The idea for them is probably to mitigate this meta by, or adding additional requirement to use your late game call-in, or adding faster way to reach them by building your late game tiers building, which should make your stock units more appealing in the mean time.
So that's why we have that Kubenwagon so OP from a USF perspective, the Kuben isn't mean to be balance with USF, but with Sov faction. And I'm pretty sure that right now they are balancing it from a Sov perspective than USF one. There are big chances that the Kuben will not suffer any strong modification in the futur because if it would have been the case, if my theory is wrong, the kubel would have been fixed within the Assault Engineer patch. So we may see kubel statis moving a last time the next patch but to be balanced with Sov, not USF.
About USF, Thia faction need a lot of work now, this is the faction the less appealing in term of gameplay and units disposal. So this is probably the one which will take the more time to balance in the game.
So they planed to work on in last.
From an USF perspective, it's sad.
From a customer perspective, the lack of communication around balance is unacceptable and it's why I'll continue to say Relic sucks, I don't say that because I don't like Relic but because I would say that of any company working in this manner with so few consideration for their customers. Actually I place Relic at the same level than EA games.
Agree from a Sov player perspective.
From a USF player one's, you've got 2 units, even before the buff they new that would be a balance breaker .
So why is always Axis buff and not seeing his high performing units downgraded.
We must start from a statement that Sov vs Ostheer is the most balanced matchup. And USF vs Ostheer is the next one that is not badly balanced. From my USF player perspective, it is my most enjoyable matchup since the release of WFA. In opposition, OKW vs Sov or vs USF is hurting the balance.
So we can consider from this statement below:
Sov vs Ostheer = balanced
USF vs Ostheer = balanced
OKW vs Sov = non-balanced
OKW vs USF = non-balanced
What dev are actually doing is pretty simple, they must balance the game with OKW faction, but they must make sure those balance decisions will not break down what is actually in place, this means neither moving Sov or USF units statistics too far, otherwise it would impact the balance with Ostheer faction. They decided to start balancing OKW with Sov. And for that, by only strongly moving OKW unit statistics so they're not messing up the balance with Ostheer.
And when They'll reach an acceptable level of balance, they start looking into the OKW vs USF matchup.
Why? Probably because they're fine with the Sov Meta. No the spamming early game, this is probably something they want to reduce, but the meta of having Sov dependent from their Doctrinal choice. The idea for them is probably to mitigate this meta by, or adding additional requirement to use your late game call-in, or adding faster way to reach them by building your late game tiers building, which should make your stock units more appealing in the mean time.
So that's why we have that Kubenwagon so OP from a USF perspective, the Kuben isn't mean to be balance with USF, but with Sov faction. And I'm pretty sure that right now they are balancing it from a Sov perspective than USF one. There are big chances that the Kuben will not suffer any strong modification in the futur because if it would have been the case, if my theory is wrong, the kubel would have been fixed within the Assault Engineer patch. So we may see kubel statis moving a last time the next patch but to be balanced with Sov, not USF.
About USF, Thia faction need a lot of work now, this is the faction the less appealing in term of gameplay and units disposal. So this is probably the one which will take the more time to balance in the game.
So they planed to work on in last.
From an USF perspective, it's sad.
From a customer perspective, the lack of communication around balance is unacceptable and it's why I'll continue to say Relic sucks, I don't say that because I don't like Relic but because I would say that of any company working in this manner with so few consideration for their customers. Actually I place Relic at the same level than EA games.
Kubel is a unique unit. There is no other such unit and people have never faced such a unit, so they might not yet know the best ways to counter it. This means there is not only a lack of comparison data, the data gathered the first few days is probably also flawed due to the meta still changing and people adapting (HueHue) to the new values. Both are reasons that require them to gather more data first before changing something.
Agree from a Sov player perspective.
From a USF player one's, you've got 2 units, even before the buff they new that would be a balance breaker .
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