Time to shake it up relic!

Hey guys I have just started playing with Allies and I have to say that they are a bit under whelming in terms of fun-ess. Im not gonna lie im a german fanboy through and through but i wanna play allies to know my enemy lol. But gosh darn are they so simplified to play mg spam to shocks to tanks, tanks to ISU that is really is hard to make any type of choice to the game. And well the americans need some pep as well because they are boring and new player unfriendly. I AM NOT AN EXPERT I AM EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!

But i have been thinking hard and Relic needs help, one because these two faction are really not fun to play (for me but i have been seeing alot of posts that are similiar so maybe im not alone????) and two they are not really new people inviting. So instead of whining so much I would like to propose ideas that i think could help ??? Plus in my mind they could add a little spice to each faction in which would help people playmore and invite more people to play.

But honestly ive been wanting to do this for some time, but have waited, to read and see, what you all have been saying first to see if i will be way off the page or not.

Soviets-
1# First of all they are commander deppendant from what i can see ??? Correct T34/85, ISU 152 and IS, Shocks and Guards. all must haves.....
So if changes were made to there teiring system i think this could then open the faction up to more possiblilties. This is how,

Get rid of penals and make them a call in unit (They suck sadly and really with my other changes have no place in this teiring system). Replace them with Guards but maybe in teir 2 ???. Then move the MG to Teir 1 and nerf it so that it an actual MG not the Spacmarine chain gun it is lol.

Make it so the soviets have to work through all three teirs. 0-1-2-3-4 This will promote a steady incline during the game and will help timing balance. That means guards will be later but not that much. Also this naturally means that Sov building can be cheaper and faster to build because they are forced to progress through all teirs. This is there biggest downfall as a faction the choices that are made by the player are immiadiatly limited to what they can build = tier 1or2 3or4 because of how expensive and long they take to build. Choice is great but not when you cant change strategy hwne your on the fly in a game!!!. Even the slow OKW have variety just with the simple options they have in there buildings.

3# T34 needs to go bye bye and become a cool double callin maybe at 5-9 cmd points (or even earlier as a single callin). The KV-1 can be put where it was. Or possibly another replacment. This means they will have a meater unit to soak up damage but it is expensive and cant run rampant. fits more into cheaper buildings maybe ???

4# The SU 76 is usless anyways and needs to be made a callin, It really reminds me of the stug E and should not beforced on players direct build line. This should be replaced with the T34/85 yes yes this unit is awsome and really you shouldnt have to choose a commander to play with it. Plus the double callin spam really hurts the game in that it forces commander selection !!!!

5# What is the first thing you always see in documentaries for soviets !!!!! Infantry riding on tanks !!!! this could be really fun and allow russians to let there infantry ride on there tanks to capture territory quickly. Also great for flanks and all around tactical ability which they lack now. The draw back could infantry take more damage say 30% from incomming fire while in the tank. Also i would say infantry can shoot while on the tank but with extreme accuracy reduction (includes flamethrowers !!!! for damage reduction). This would mean yes you can get infantry from A-B quickly but it will be risky if you run in your opponent.

I think this would go great with the double T34 callin with shocks on the tanks LOL !!! Yes End of comander ablity with asscociated cost of couse.

This next idea can be given to Americans and Osteer aswell as soviets. AT gun and possibly other equipment being towed by Osteer (halftrack) Soviets (halftrack) and americans with possibly the dodge truck or Halftrack. This would help the god forsaken AT gun not rolling all the way to the front lines and being able to redeploy quickly to hot spots. Americans really need this !!!!!! there AT is already limited and thet AT gun use any help they can get.

6# We all know cons suck (unless in buildings) and even with guards in the teiring system there infantry are nothing to write home about. A cool and easy way to fix this would be to create a simple unit called the a moral officer that would basically be built and act as a officer (teir one) that attatches/follows a unit and can do cool stuff like shoot a con to make them break suppression or fight better ???? give them an accuracy bonus. Of course building one of these would take pop cap and manpower so the play can choose between quantity or quality ??? again viable choice!!!!

Lastly I think the IS should be a teir #4 vehicle (as should be the god damn tiger !) and should be built there. This is my argument..... yes that means they can have a ISU 152 and an IS at the same time but probably not because of the fuel they will have to sink into the tier system as well a pop cap so it would be more rare than anthying which those callins should be ( callin should not be game changing) !!!! ......also provides lots of choice!!!!

Americans-
I really like what they have done with there system Americans are intriquet but need help in some areas. They preach movement and focusing fire in a single spot at once but some of the units dont allow this.

#1 they need a little more choice in the AT department. Towed AT guns would help maybe but since zooks have been nerfed into oblivion The only way to deal with panther and tiger KT and other big shit is to Pray to the RNG gods, spam At guns and hope there tanks let you shoot them long enough to the kill them, Or try and micro the F out of two or three sluggers and hope they lose more than you in the end. You can also blob but then your really gonna pay with some of nasty anti blob stuf out there.

None of those are overly fun for me and i dont think there newbie friendly either.
My idee for better At is simple Take away that rediculus AA halftrack contraption of death and replace it with a normal half track (yes they will have two things they can reinforce from but hey there a infantry heavy race...... flexibilty comes from things like rapid movement !!! being able to have a standard vehicle to tranport troops is retarded espcially when its the amies (who preach that very thing). Then give the half track two optional upgrades..... AA quad mount or a 75mm AT gun..... Give the gun good range and accuracy and a tread breaking abbility. Quad mount is and well has been done but is effective and ya......

This will help with early game AT and basically will give early but not powerful AT to them and hopfully with vet can scale into late game with its tread breaker ability.

2# Give the Jackson the ability to have a scope upgrade. Sniping is what this unit should do!!! The less its actually going head to head the better.....this is not what it was designed for in game and i feel needs some love. Or give it a blits ability. And yes with okw and osteer thats all you damn amies do is go head to head with my heavies and most of the time i come out on top. this is mostly do to the vehicle speed and turret rotate... just sayin my panthers are faster !!!! Wtf????

3# The sherman is versatile but not good enough to take on high teir tanks..... even in numbers. Right now they need to buff the sherman damage multiplier for having more than one up to three. Where they suck some more damage up and vet faster to help them deal with heavier stuff. Also a blitz abilty would be nice for them. Swarming and quick hit and run is what amies are about.

4# Scap the pak howitzer..... how did this make it into the game any ways it was predomantly used in the pacific because it was ideal for mountanas terrian and jungles (just sayin lol)plus it sucks isnt very support of LMAO and slows the whole american meta down. Replace it with the mortar halftrack.....or switch what ever. Its rarly used against me as OKW or Osteer and i predomantly see the mortar half track......You should not have to choose the commander in order to get the basic fun units enough said.

5# Smoke !!! yes Smoke is awsome it idea but needs to faster and more accurat ..... really its one of those things it wouldnt hurt to make better. Also and why not give it to rear echelon for shits and giggles ???? it wont hurt anything will make them more useful as support unit perse.
the Americans in a nut shell..... basically when i play soviets i know what there gonna build and how there gonna come at me but for the most part they have effective and scary/tactics which i know to watch out for and say ohhhh shit its time to counter before his tanks f me up. With americans i never ever ever ever have that problem.....every thing is dealt with countered on such an easy scale that really they need a change here and there aswell.

Honestly I know theres lots I dont know this is what I think and I hope I create more disscussion then community backlash. Sorry for long post.

You don't need to be an expert to see that the game is completely lopsided towards germans. You just have to look at the % numbers when searching for a game.

You don't need to be an expert to see that the game is completely lopsided towards germans. You just have to look at the % numbers when searching for a game.

Those %'s have always been that way even when the balance is completely obvious in allies favor.

Example of that was when shock troops were 1 CP, there were still more axis.

People like the challenge!

Those %'s have always been that way even when the balance is completely obvious in allies favor.

Example of that was when shock troops were 1 CP, there were still more axis.

But it was 60-40, not 95-5.

92%-8% in Axis favour regularly. :/

Really unimpressed with how the game is balanced, have been since its release. (got me banned from the CoH2 forums all in one go)

People like the challenge!

As much as people like to have splinters under their nails.

The generation that enjoyed the challenge sized to exist about a decade ago.

Wanna shake up? Allright!

• First of all - remember, kids: homohenization is boring and kills good games!
  
• Make soviet tier system linear, just like Wehrmacht.
  
• Introduce new non-doctrinal soviet heavy tank that matches Panther (KV-85 would greatly fit in)
  
• aaaaand... here we go:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Tier	Wehrmacht	Soviet
  T0	Pios				Pios
  T1	Grens	MG-42	GrW-34	Sniper	Cons	Maxim	Mortar	Sniper
  T2	PzGrens	HT	Pak-40	SdKfz.221/222	Guards	M3A1	ZIS-3	T-70
  T3	Stug	Ostwind	Pz. IV		SU-76	M5	T-34
  T4	Brummbar	NebelWerfer	Panther		SU-85	BM-13	(T-34-85 / KV-85 / KV-1 /discuss)

  
  
• I wanted to put shock and penals, but they just won't fit
  

You don't need to be an expert to see that the game is completely lopsided towards germans. You just have to look at the % numbers when searching for a game.

That is explained thorugh the fact that people like challanges not exploit/cheesee play. Coming with this argument makes you a cheesee play lover as far as I can see....

Back on topic, Relic has been looking to us for a answer for the Soviet problem and i think this is on the right track. And yes, The dam Tiger and IS2 heavies should be in the tier system.

Plus 1

That is explained thorugh the fact that people like challanges not exploit/cheesee play. Coming with this argument makes you a cheesee play lover as far as I can see....

Soviet M3A1 + Sniper + Guards is actually quite hard to execute. It requires a lot of micro and good intuition and if you fail - everything fall apart like house of cards.

I find it quite challenging.

Wanna shake up? Allright!

• First of all - remember, kids: homohenization is boring and kills good games!
  
• Make soviet tier system linear, just like Wehrmacht.
  
• Introduce new non-doctrinal soviet heavy tank that matches Panther (KV-85 would greatly fit in)
  
• aaaaand... here we go:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Tier	Wehrmacht	Soviet
  T0	Pios				Pios
  T1	Grens	MG-42	GrW-34	Sniper	Cons	Maxim	Mortar	Sniper
  T2	PzGrens	HT	Pak-40	SdKfz.221/222	Guards	M3A1	ZIS-3	T-70
  T3	Stug	Ostwind	Pz. IV		SU-76	M5	T-34
  T4	Brummbar	NebelWerfer	Panther		SU-85	BM-13	(T-34-85 / KV-85 / KV-1 /discuss)

  
  
• I wanted to put shock and penals, but they just won't fit
  

play some mirror matches

I wish people would stop with the "92-8% regularly" stuff. It doesn't prove anything conclusively, and many people (myself included) rarely if ever see stats like that. Sure, I have, but my average search % in 2v2/3v3 is more like 60-40. Even 70-30% isn't awful.

I think it does prove something is wrong.

However much you can wrap some maths logic around it, an unhealthy amount of people are searching axis and not only that, are unwilling to even switch sides when they see such skewed numbers.

That shows there's something wrong, it proves that the majority of players recognise, consciously or unconsciously that particular sides are easier or imbalanced (likely the latter).

The fact that such imbalances in player searches have persisted since the game's launch no matter what has happened only shows that something is wrong.

It doesn't prove anything conclusively,

and many people (myself included) rarely if ever see stats like that.

Sure, I have, but my average search % in 2v2/3v3 is more like 60-40.

Even 70-30% isn't awful.

Maybe people like to play as the Axis more than the Allies? I for one like to play as the OKW for the King Tiger and Panther. Do I try to play as the Allies every now and then? Yes, but I like the look and feel of the German faction.

Also playing most of yesterday only one time did I see 100%-0% search rate for Axis to Allies. In fact several times yesterday it was 45%-55% Axis to Allies! So yes it does depend on where you are and at what time you play for search rates.

Hmm... so if anything the allies should err on the OP side to make their side more appealing. As opposed to what it is currently where we have the Axis being both OP and having the sex appeal...

I think it does prove something is wrong.

However much you can wrap some maths logic around it, an unhealthy amount of people are searching axis and not only that, are unwilling to even switch sides when they see such skewed numbers.

That shows there's something wrong, it proves that the majority of players recognise, consciously or unconsciously that particular sides are easier or imbalanced (likely the latter).

The fact that such imbalances in player searches have persisted since the game's launch no matter what has happened only shows that something is wrong.

If the % in automatch mean something, then what does your playercard% mean?

96% Soviets
4% Wehrmacht

You claim that "lots of biased players = OP". But you're biased for the allied side as are many other people. By your logic that means allies are OP too. Or are allied players heroes of light, fighting for the underpowered everywhere?

There are plenty of Allies-only players. This is not an indicator of them being OP, just as axis-majority isn't either.



Try axis for 20-30 games, then see if it's really as OP as you think. I'm pretty sure you'll be fed up with flamer-ht/sniper spam/rifle blob by game 7.




Back on topic:
Sovs are boring to play, have the worst voice files (It's important ), require the most cheesing in order to win. I hate the soviet cheese strats but without them sovs have a hard time.

Amis are too repetitive. Rifles to AA HT, then blob up supported by Jacksons and Shermans as required.

Playercard % on the other hand means a lot. It means bias.


Back on topic:
Sovs are boring to play, have the worst voice files (It's important ), require the most cheesing in order to win. I hate the soviet cheese strats but without them sovs have a hard time.

Amis are too repetitive. Rifles to AA HT, then blob up supported by Jacksons and Shermans as required.

I play Soviets most of the time because otherwise it means interminable waiting otherwise for some senseless slaughter of some poor sucker who's crazy enough to choose Soviets instead of me.

I despise the need to cheese Soviets as much as you do, which is why I always make sure to play something different every single game if I can. I was probably one of the first guys in open beta to spam maxims, but I soon got sick of it (no late game oomph) and went over to something more inspiring (with predictable results for my winrate).

You don't need to be an expert to see that the game is completely lopsided towards germans. You just have to look at the % numbers when searching for a game.

SEARCH PERCENTAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BALANCE.DAMN WHEN WILL PEOPLE LEARN. AXIS FACTION DESIGN IS JUST WAY BETTER OR FUN IF YOU LIKE.