Fallschirmjager

You realize that Soviets have the same exact thing with Partisans and Irregulars right?


Also Fallschirmjaeger don't have much survivability unless they are Vet-3 and Up, and even then they can die like flies and have a huge manpower bleed. 440mp for a squad ain't a joke.

This would be the case if they had the same or similiar DPS to falls, but they're basically shiat compared to Fall DPS.

I honestly think Falls are fair atm due to their price, reinforce, and armor values.
Though I will admit their accuracy is ridiculously good at times(and if you can keep them alive to vet 3-5 you got yourself cloaking Obersoldaten).

Right now watching Dane's game, where he plays with US against OKW with Falls used as frontline infantry. They don't look too much fragile to me.
Although he still won the game.

Did some butchering on AT guns.

They aren't the most expensive infantry in the game. Their real cost is around ~384mp and their real performance is scaled to that. The extra 56 MP cost is due to their ability to deploy from anywhere.

This is the same for paratroopers, who cost 380 MP to deploy, but their real cost is around ~336 mp.

If they were worth 440 mp, their reinforce cost would be 55.

Who cares about their 'real cost'? If you dont have440 mp, you wont be able to deply them, building spawning, or offmap normal callin. So yes, they are the most expensive infantry in the game.

Who cares about their 'real cost'? If you dont have440 mp, you wont be able to deply them, building spawning, or offmap normal callin. So yes, they are the most expensive infantry in the game.

The initial cost of a unit is trivial compared to its lifetime cost on the battlefield.

That lifetime cost will be influenced almost entirely by the reinforcement cost of that unit. A rifleman squad costs 280 to deploy, but keeping it alive all game could cost you 1,000.

Similarly, Fallschirms cost 440 to deploy, but are cheaper to reinforce in the long run, saving you hundreds of manpower throughout the life span of that unit.

The reinforcement cost of a unit is always more important than its spawn in cost. That's part of why the old Jager Light Infantry were so awkward- cheap to make, but they tanked your economy hard.

Again, if you dont have 440mp, you wont be able to deploy them, building or offmap normal calling. It is the most expensive infantry in the game. Anyone more wants to hear it again?

Again, if you dont have 440mp, you wont be able to deploy them, building or offmap normal calling. It is the most expensive infantry in the game. Anyone more wants to hear it again?

They're expensive but they can pay for themselves in just seconds if spawned properly. Their high DPS can kill, in just seconds, a couple of support weapons or snipers. Btw, once vetted they are a wonderful shock infantry.

As Burts said, you are actually paying their infiltration ability, remove it and their price would be much more affordable, according to their combat capabilities. This is not a frontline unit and shouldn't be never spammed as their use is purely situational, their high price helps preventing that.

Completely agreed.

the Fallschirmjager rightfully have very high DPS.

the problem with them is that they can appear almost anywhere instantly. Coupled with their insta-wiping level close range DPS its just ridiculous. 440 manpower is an ok chunk of change for these elite infantry, but they can do much more than many abilities that cost 100-200 munitons because they instant spawn and instant wipe.

All other abilities/units/upgrades/anything in the game require some kind of planning, Theres a time between you choose to do something, and the time it actually happens. If you want to flank someone, arty someone, snipe someone. theres some planning and thought involved.

Fallschirmjager dont have that. You can just randomly think "oh i wish i had a unit behind their lines" and in a single click you have that. "oh i wish that mg squad wasnt there-- click", "oh that at gun i didnt see before might take out my panther-- click"

There needs to be some kind of stipulations to their deployment. You should need to plan ahead for your flanking move, or to try and wipe a retreating squad. You should be required to actually plan your moves ahead of time like everything else in the game.

Why armies based on battered army groups with armed teenagers and recovered casualties with shortage of supplies almost always end up with much better and stronger stuff while opponents are stuck with early/pre war equipment despite being based on late war armies as well? This is my only beef.

The armed teenagers thing is bullshit and you know it. Germany didn't start arming kids and the elderly to go into battle until the last two or three months of the war with Berlin under siege. They called that militia the Volkssturm.

The Volksgrenadiers were perfectly capable combat units made from veterans and "jobless" military personnel like the Luftwafffe and Kriegsmarine. With the navy in shambles irrelevant and the air force in not much better condition. These were professional soldiers put into smaller squads with a higher amount of automatic weapons and panzerfausts.


Also a recovered casualty is just that. Recovered, no different than a fresh soldier other than he has experience and has survived once before already.

The biggest shortage in supplies was a lack of petrol to keep vehicles running, munitions and whatnot kept running through to the end of the war.

The armed teenagers thing is bullshit and you know it. Germany didn't start arming kids and the elderly to go into battle until the last two or three months of the war with Berlin under siege. They called that militia the Volkssturm.

The Volksgrenadiers were perfectly capable combat units made from veterans and "jobless" military personnel like the Luftwafffe and Kriegsmarine. With the navy in shambles irrelevant and the air force in not much better condition. These were professional soldiers put into smaller squads with a higher amount of automatic weapons and panzerfausts.


Also a recovered casualty is just that. Recovered, no different than a fresh soldier other than he has experience and has survived once before already.

The biggest shortage in supplies was a lack of petrol to keep vehicles running, munitions and whatnot kept running through to the end of the war.

errm, actually, it kind of started earlier, since soviets were advancing so fast.

Even jobless military personnels were significantly inferior to the standard landser fighting since the beginning.
If i remember right, they were also drafting foreign workers into formations at some point.

But from Bagration onward, there was a noticeable decline in quality.



Someone wants to tade falls for shocks ? i'd make that deal, being deadly at all ranges beats being deadly only in spitting range.

Soviets very often have to assault axis position, and axis have great long range and short range firepower due to omnipresent automatic weapons for them and not as many ppsh as there should be.

Also, like several Axis squads, they shoot in a kind of goofy way, as if their guns were bullet hoses without recoil. Meanwhile, ppsh seem to fire in urst

the issue isnt if falls beats shocks (they dont)

the issue is that they beat almost every infantry except for shocks. So they can instantly wipe out retreating units, instantly wipe out weapons teams, instantly wipe out engineers...

THe issue isnt even that they can wipe these teams out, its that they can spawn instantly and do it. The entire process from deciding to use falls, to deploying them, to wiping their is like a 5 second deal.

Most abilities take 5 seconds or more just to activate.

Theres no way you can react to that when they spawn. and theres no strategy involved. theres no preplanning or tactics or anything.

Theres a big difference between deploying behind enemy lines, hiding, moving about/scouting for a flanking attack... and just merely materializing and instantly going in to battle.

Someone wants to tade falls for shocks ? i'd make that deal, being deadly at all ranges beats being deadly only in spitting range.

Soviets very often have to assault axis position, and axis have great long range and short range firepower due to omnipresent automatic weapons for them and not as many ppsh as there should be.

Also, like several Axis squads, they shoot in a kind of goofy way, as if their guns were bullet hoses without recoil. Meanwhile, ppsh seem to fire in urst

Oh yeah? You found that person. I would trade fallschirm against shocks any time. Any time!

Oh yeah? You found that person. I would trade fallschirm against shocks any time. Any time!

me as well. the problem of fsj is that suffer from massive overlap with the obers all the wile the obers pack more firepower and durability at long range.

errm, actually, it kind of started earlier, since soviets were advancing so fast.

Even jobless military personnels were significantly inferior to the standard landser fighting since the beginning.
If i remember right, they were also drafting foreign workers into formations at some point.

But from Bagration onward, there was a noticeable decline in quality.

Well the problem with volksgrenadiers is that their quality varied a lot with some units managing to get some good solid hits on the soviets and Americans. And im just going to assume that the volks we get in the game are of the better divisions,

-Snip-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksgrenadier

This is information of Volksgrenadiers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssturm


This is the Volkssturm.



Two very different things and a lot of people seem to have them horribly confused. Also the "Jobless" military personnel came from the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe like I said, all of them have been through basic training and marksmanship. They would have done considerably better than and "kids". In fact they did do better.


Thing about history is that while it is open to conjecture, most of it is 100% solid fact based on events. It is as close to a concrete foundation as we have for this game.

Guys, since when did Relic give a shit about such a thread? No one will change a single thing on those Fallschirmjager infantry, they are expensive and pretty effective. Forget adout it.

The initial cost of a unit is trivial compared to its lifetime cost on the battlefield.

That lifetime cost will be influenced almost entirely by the reinforcement cost of that unit. A rifleman squad costs 280 to deploy, but keeping it alive all game could cost you 1,000.

Similarly, Fallschirms cost 440 to deploy, but are cheaper to reinforce in the long run, saving you hundreds of manpower throughout the life span of that unit.

The reinforcement cost of a unit is always more important than its spawn in cost. That's part of why the old Jager Light Infantry were so awkward- cheap to make, but they tanked your economy hard.

That's not the problem, the problem is that late game Allied inf relies on squad wiping stuff like ISU, KV-8, IS-2, hell, even the T-34 or Sherman can kill inf left and right.

That's not the problem, the problem is that late game Allied inf relies on squad wiping stuff like ISU, KV-8, IS-2, hell, even the T-34 or Sherman can kill inf left and right.

What's hilarious is that on the flipside, anything German that can squad wipe is instantly called "OP" and nerfed out of the game.

What's hilarious is that on the flipside, anything German that can squad wipe is instantly called "OP" and nerfed out of the game.

Axis have Brummbarrs, PzIV, Tigers, Sturmtigers, KT's, Stukas etc.

It's hardly unique. Vehicle and artillery weapons are big.

Not really relevant to fallschirms, is it?

Axis have Brummbarrs, PzIV, Tigers, Sturmtigers, KT's, Stukas etc.

It's hardly unique. Vehicle and artillery weapons are big.

Not really relevant to fallschirms, is it?

It is. The one side usually has squads of 4 and the other squads of 6 men. The chance for a squad wipe is therefore not identical.