Why were scripts nerfed again 2 patches ago?

Was there a reason?

were they?

I think he is referring to the received accuracy penalty

In Relic's balance stream, Quimsieh said that all the infantry changes were to "bring units closer to what they were intended." They buffed the DPS of conscripts and made them take a little more damage to compensate, so Relic didn't want them to be as meatshield-y with crap DPS.

Because conscripts were overperforming before, obviously.

They buffed the DPS of conscripts and made them take a little more damage to compensate, so Relic didn't want them to be as meatshield-y with crap DPS.

I don't have any complaints with that, but then their current price is too expensive for a meatshield unit that doesn't scale at all. They're as expensive as grens and volks, which are way better along all the game.

In essence conscripts were indeed nerfed.

Basically they got nerfed at the range they were slightly actually good at (point blank shootouts). While their mid range DPS was increased slightly.

Problem is, close range is still the only range they can win a fight, so, yes, they were nerfed.

Not to mention that the increased incoming accuracy and mosin nagant mid range buff makes conscript PPSH completely useless.

Conscripts are more like utility unit now. They are used not because of stats, but because of wide set of abilities - (molotov/AT gren)+oorah, merge. I even use sandbags frequently lately. They are terrible meatshield. They can't actually stop anything, just result in manpower drain.

Flame engineers are a better and more useful unit now. Unless they want to give demo charge and mines to scripts. Merging with the support units the soviets are meant to spam isn't even as cost effective as a normal reinforce.

Personally I think that conscripts were buffed. Better accuracy(slight buff) and more DPS on them ensures that they destroy grenadier at close range which is what I want to see when they close in. Elbe Day conscripts was strange because they just destroyed everything when I a-move them. WFA release made me stop a-moving them because they were getting thrashed(even against Ostheer) which shows that something was done to them.

The received accuarcy penalty isn't that bad actually. Maybe it's bad for PPSH conscripts (idk, haven't tried it yet) but this sure seems like a buff to vanilla conscripts.



Maybe a reinforce cost reduction to 16 per man?

Personally I think that conscripts were buffed. Better accuracy(slight buff) and more DPS on them ensures that they destroy grenadier at close range which is what I want to see when they close in. Elbe Day conscripts was strange because they just destroyed everything when I a-move them. WFA release made me stop a-moving them because they were getting thrashed(even against Ostheer) which shows that something was done to them.

The received accuarcy penalty isn't that bad actually. Maybe it's bad for PPSH conscripts (idk, haven't tried it yet) but this sure seems like a buff to vanilla conscripts.



Maybe a reinforce cost reduction to 16 per man?

Except their close range DPS got unchanged, gren survivability went up by about 10% and con survivability dropped by about 9%.

So while they will beat grens, they have harder time doing so them pre patch.

Too all those who say that conscripts were nerfed, is it just your gut feeling or do you have any data to support it?

Since at least when compared to Grenadiers I'd personally would say, if anything, that they were buffed against them.

Too all those who say that conscripts were nerfed, is it just your gut feeling or do you have any data to support it?

Since at least when compared to Grenadiers I'd personally would say, if anything, that they were buffed against them.

Other then what the patch notes say?

Sure against Grens and other moderate DPS units it may be buff. But Scripts already Melted to Falls and Ober fire. So now they Melt faster (smells like a Nerf to me).

Soooo outside of some data analytics Relic may have on how much the Total Cost of Ownership of Conscripts were Pre Change and Post Change there is really no good data to provide.

Its the inverse to what Snipers provide. With snipers you have a large upfront cost and upkeep but a low total cost relative to the bleed they inflict.

Its a matter of economy. If it took you say 60 MP to kill an LMG gren model before on average and they gained a small buff (maybe someone like you or Milka can run the numbers) and now they take 66MP to get the same result then obviously their TCO went up (which was already high IMO).

Of course this is all magnified relative to how much higher a squads DPS is pushed up. So say it is 66MP now to kill a single LMG gren Model at Vet 0 this will in turn GO UP as the Gren gets vet (that they will get faster due to the nerf)

And that also doesnt account for Pintle MGs when they try to toss an AT nade. Or the relationship to optimum range of the PPSH.

Other then what the patch notes say?

No, I mean any actual maths people might have done or games they might have played to be sure how the changes play out.

And actually, even if you just read the patch notes, you should notice that it wasn't a nerf - a change at worst. Unless you cherry pick specific changes without context just to prove your point.

http://www.twitch.tv/relicentertainment/b/567569238

Jump to 35:00 and listen for about 3 minutes. Cons weren't nerfed but now cover is a huge factor in their survivability. According to Peter, they are now closer to their original design/intended use.

Didn't know why they needed it though. Before the change, they died fast regardless of being in cover or not.

No, I mean any actual maths people might have done or games they might have played to be sure how the changes play out.

And actually, even if you just read the patch notes, you should notice that it wasn't a nerf - a change at worst. Unless you cherry pick specific changes without context just to prove your point.

It was a nerf to their surviability. A buff to their damage. And as I said before they struggle to survive as it is. So yes in the most technical term it was a change. But their damage is hardly anything to talk about even in its buffed state. Also their damage DOES NOT HELP THEM WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO TOSS A MOLOTOV OR AT GRENADE lol.

I could care less about the Balance of scripts vs Ost it was ok before until the LMG came in. I care about their ability to do anything but bleed to OKW. And that has gotten worse. Which to me is a nerf.

I understand PQ envisions scripts fighting from Green cover all the time. And thats fine and dandy if they had excellent long range DPS and they could even fit behind their own sandbags. And if he wanted PPSH upgrades to also be long range.

But in reality thats not whats going to happen in 9/10 cases. You do need to cap after all.

To answer your questions directly Tensai have I used them since the patch? Yes in everyone of my Soviet games which has netted me my nifty 3 game losing streak.

Didn't know why they needed it though. Before the change, they died fast regardless of being in cover or not.

Iirc Peter explains that in the 3 minute section I referenced. I watched it last Thursday so I don't want to misquote their reasoning. However I remember he does go into some depth about why the Cons were changed the way they were. Earlier he plays Soviets and wins I think to demonstrate the subsequent point.

Iirc Peter explains that in the 3 minute section I referenced. I watched it last Thursday so I don't want to misquote their reasoning. However I remember he does go into some depth about why the Cons were changed the way they were. Earlier he plays Soviets and wins I think to demonstrate the subsequent point.

All PQ said there is their damage was buffed and their survivability nerfed to better suit their role. That doesn't really explain anything.

Their role was core infantry with low cost, low damage, high survivability, moderate utility and no scalability. Well that WAS their role anyway. What is it supposed to be now?

Yes he explains that units, including cons got their role more defined. This does not explain the received accuracy penalty. They might have said to force them into cover, but this is idiotic. I said earlier that before the changes, Cons already died fast in or out of cover. Why don't they penalize obersoldaten or something? Those units are blobbed and A-moved all the damn time

I just don't think the survivability nerf really affects OKW vs Soviet balance, since conscripts aren't that useful in that matchup that much. Or at least, I haven't really noticed a lot of them.