4v4

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 11:07 AMOmega_Warrior

I understand what you are trying to accomplish, but that would just solve the cause not the true problem. The real problem is that heavy vehicles and advanced mediums to lesser extent are just too cost-efficient. It's just more noticeable in large team games due to the higher resources. And no I'm not talking about the call-in issue, a small one time fuel advantage.

Heavy vehicles can operate and push without worrying about the vehicle suddenly dying to a well placed at defenses due to their high durability and sometimes range, and as long as they pull back before death and this will cost them nothing, especially since the dedicated AT can't give chase against even minor support. Medium tanks on the other hand are forced into attempting high risk maneuvers if they want to succeed against these vehicles which even in the best of cases will cause casualties for them.

They need to add some sort of cost to USE heavy vehicles so that cost effectiveness of the medium tanks actually evens out with the heavies

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 11:52 AMSarantini

Currently that is done by popcap and upkeep, are you saying they should increase the popcap for heavies or do you think something else?

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 12:01 PMOmega_Warrior

I think the popcap should probably expand to fuel and probably increase for heavies, either that or a cost for repairing vehicles with cheaper ones being less expensive.

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 12:14 PMHon3ynuts

Changing the pop system wont help that much since manpower surpluses are often harder to come by than fuel in team games

However King tigers have a pop of 26, where as IS2 and tigers have a pop of 24. Not sure about other heavies but KT should definable have a higher popcap

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 12:31 PMOmega_Warrior

From my experience, most players will simply stop paying for infantry after a certain point and simply churn out heavies as fast as they can. Manpower comes easy since as long as the players are cautious they can have their heavies do most the fighting while having very little bleed to resources. While those relying on tanks like the T34/76 are forced to be more aggressive as to not let the heavies build up.

I don't know exactly what needs to be done, but what i do know is that heavy vehicles are too economically efficient. They have no bleed and while this is true to some extent from mediums, they are much more likely to die. Something needs to be done to reverse this. Players relying on heavies should be economically penalized more then players using lighter choices. Strategies implementing heavy vehicles shouldn't be better then the alternatives.

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 13:56 PMNinjaWJ

my question is, how was the 4v4 and 3v3 balance before WFA was released?

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 12:27 PMWinterfeld

Okay, weird idea here, but why not change the stats for the different gamemodes? Like 2 different balances, 1vs1 has its own balances, while 4vs4 has different ones. Not major ones that would confuse you like different armor and stuff like that, but manpower costs for units, so it is harder to steamroll e.t.c.
In short, let 1vs1 be balanced, but change the team games sepperately? :/

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 17:04 PMLucas Troy

I would much rather play 4v4 than 2v2 or 1v1, but I avoid anything larger than 2v2 like the plague since balance doesn't take those modes into account.

Hopefully, CoH3 () will take the opposite approach and make balance and game design decisions with 4v4s in mind. Then we can have huge battles that also play really well, and we can scream at anyone who complains about something being too weak or too good in 1v1.

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 19:46 PMElSlayer

1) Tight maps. You can't use medium tanks effectively because almost any direction of your move resulting in straight head-on attack on enemy defences.

2) Аbundance of resources. Holding half of the map, or at least one of fuel points is enough for each player of your team to make one top unit - ISU, double T-34-85 or King Tiger. In 4v4 all resources (maybe except manpower) should be halved.

3) Game speed. The time window between first built medium tank and first call-in vehicle is too small so it is better (and not that punishing) to just wait until you get required CP/fuel for better vehicles.

I think it is okay that heavier tank is less vulnerable to running into enemy defences and more safe to use in general. That is the point of heavy tank.

But fast medium tanks should force you to react or make you lose positions (and eventually the Game) if you don't.
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Axis, unless noobs, will veto all maps that don't advantage them... Results : Axis win 4vs4 80% of the time, no matter who play them.

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 12:31 PMOmega_Warrior

I don't know exactly what needs to be done, but what i do know is that heavy vehicles are too economically efficient. They have no bleed and while this is true to some extent from mediums, they are much more likely to die. Something needs to be done to reverse this. Players relying on heavies should be economically penalized more then players using lighter choices. Strategies implementing heavy vehicles shouldn't be better then the alternatives.

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 20:11 PMElSlayer

How about increasing heavy vehicle repair time so they will be out of combat for longer time if soaked much damage?

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 02:19 AMNinjaWJ

speaking as an exclusive 4v4 only player, i don't think it is exactly easier. A lot of people blob but i think this comes from not having to pay attention to the entire map. However, i think 4v4 does have its difficult moments. Since the maps are bigger and there are more units, flanking is a lot more potent and effective.

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 20:26 PMdasheepeh

How about trying the smaller gamemodes? Youre missing out the fun that comes with a smaller scale game. And experience obviously, because you only play one gamemodes with one faction. Its like you are playing 1/4 of the game.

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 20:25 PMAlpharius

That means nerfing OKW repair station and Sturmpio repair abilities => prepare to face the rage of Axis players

Jump back to quoted post15 Sep 2014, 20:26 PMdasheepeh

How about trying the smaller gamemodes? Youre missing out the fun that comes with a smaller scale game. And experience obviously, because you only play one gamemode with one faction. Its like you are playing 1/4 of the game.