So Sturmpioneers... what do?

With the recent nerf we've found that Sturmpioneers are no longer "Assault Pioneers" (Sturm = Storm or Assault in German) We've also found by graphs that they have an extremely narrow effective window against really anything before the effective ranges of other units between American Rifles and Assault Engineers / Shock Troops, really anything close quarters.



The patch notes showed that the close quarters or maximum damage range for Sturmpioneers has been adjusted to range-3 from the original range-8, while American Assault Engineers and Shocktroops were moved to a close range (read as max damage range) of range-10!

So what this tells us is that while any other SMG squad moves in to assault these former Assault Pioneers, they will have been in their max damage range 7 times over before closing in to facehugging range for 3 that the Sturmpioneers need to do effective enough damage to force them away.




This also means that if one so chose, they could have their SMG squads sitting back further and doing more damage than Sturmpioneers could! Because Max Damage at Range-10 > Max Damage at Range-3.

If you ask me, I guess Relic will change again the sturmpios. I mean they are quite broken now, and they don't serve their initial purpose. My intuition tells me that they will suffer contradictory changes in the future as pzgrenadiers did (Relic could not make up its mind related to them). I think that unfortunatelly sturmpios will suffer in the same way, and no reliable strategy can involve more than one squad. That it's sad

If you ask me, I guess Relic will change again the sturmpios. I mean they are quite broken now, and they don't serve their initial purpose. My intuition tells me that they will suffer contradictory changes in the future as pzgrenadiers did (Relic could not make up its mind related to them). I think that unfortunatelly sturmpios will suffer in the same way, and no reliable strategy can involve more than one squad. That it's sad

They have clearly explained the change on stream.

They will not change anything back.

L2P issue, they are mid range unit, not SMG CQC one, use them from cover at mid range.

support them with Kubel

They have clearly explained the change on stream.

They will not change anything back.

L2P issue, they are mid range unit, not SMG CQC one, use them from cover at mid range.

Before, the best use was in cover, efficient from middle to close combat and still doing "some" damage from far distance, while being in cover all/most of the time.
L2P means now to learn using them as shock troopers - aka no brainer unit - closing them to hug distance in order to kill efficiently.
What I cand tell you about this is:
1 - STG 44 is not a SMG. It's an assault rifle. It's stupid to impose sturmpios to be used in this way.
2 - If Relic wanted them to be used in this way, they should have modified the values that grant them a more efficient defence. The received accuracy modifier it's not enough.
3 - They are an expensive unit. In addition, takes alot of time to reinforce. So, there is a verry big contradiction between their highest efficiency range and the way they should be used. I mean: before, because to reinfoce them was costly and took forever, they where used from mid distance alot and even from far distance in order to minimize losses. Loosing to quickly 1-2 models from squad was not the way to play them because of facts presented before. Now, while none of these facts changed (reinforcing time and cost), I am obliged - in order to have the old efficiency - to close to my opponents troops at face punching distance, loosing models at a higher rate. Suddenly, I can tell you frankly, they don't worth it.

The result: If you are playing without additional units like fallschirmjager or jager infantry, that means untill T4 you will have no efficient AI infantry which is verry bad agains early allied blobbing especially now when mg34 was toned down alot. That shouldn't be a problem for Ostheer, but OKW has the fuel problem and it cannot compensate through AI vehicles like sdkfz AA in the same manner as Ostheer. Any vehicle build, equals to donating an organ. Costly and with consequences in future (Bad consequences if you have bad luck losing it quickly or if you build the wrong vehicle).

That is the problem actualy. Sturmpios changes are contributing to overall okw infantry handicap increase which, in my view, is highly unrecommended given the resources situation.

This is what I've seen in low level 2v2:

They kill conscripts pretty well in early game, and can beat rifles at some ranges 1v1, which isn't true of most OKW infantry. After that, they are very good at repair and can defend flanks or maybe do some flanking.

At least what I've seen them used for, haven't gotten a chance to play OKW this patch.

I'd just hope this is the kind of thing Relic would work quickly over since it is absolutely 100% not okay as it is.

Sturmpios are fine to my mind. Still ripping through everything which moves early game as usual...

I don't find anything wrong with them.

While the sp did take a nerf the overall early game situation of the okw has been much improved. volks are now much equal to the other tier 1 infantry and the kubel is now perfectly viable against both factions.

Sturmpios are perfectly fine, people just leave games vs. me now. Pls buff german more Relic GG )))))))

In this patch, everything Sturmpio can do, Assault Engineer do better and at lower cost except mine sweeping. (And don't forget demo charge)

Sturms are fine, just fill a different role now. I think the Sturm and PGren changes show that Relic is interested in creating a new 'class' of infantry, distinct from rifle infantry and CQC SMG infantry. The new class is something like "mid-range assault rifle" troops. Possibly Sturms need some tweaks to fulfil this role effectively, but Relic's comments on stream suggest that they aren't just going to revert the changes they already made.

I can actually say that new SP are more deadly than the old ones, at least for me, as they are slightly more durable. I actually prefer them over the old ones.

You guys are so pleased about new SP that I will just continue using them to see if I'm not mistaken. But seriously, that is not the impression I had while playing them at all!

Relic already stated they want them to be a midrange combat unit, this "nerf" was to give them better utility at that range, and also a (Very small) survivability buff.

Relic already stated they want them to be a midrange combat unit, this "nerf" was to give them better utility at that range, and also a (Very small) survivability buff.

Problem with that idea there champ is that they do NOT do enough damage at midrange to deal with close combat troops or even rifle troops, they don't do enough damage period unless they are IN YOUR FREAKING FACE.

So yah, can't fill out that mid ranged role very well... they are mediocre at best.


Another glaring issue is that the Axis factions have just about zero strong close combat units as they are, which is sad because they pioneered the idea of mid to close range combat with their ingenious weapon designs from the MP-40 through to the STG-44, they were close quarters kings, and they outfitted many groups with rifles AND automatic weapons as force multipliers.

Sturmpios are fine now after this patch, they were a little too lethal in the previous one.

They are a builder unit and that should be reflected in the price of the squad which it is now. They still dominate the first engagement you have in each game, only difference is that cover is more important. You can't just rush and win EVERY engagement with the opponents first unit anymore like you could before.

Comparing a starting unit with doctrinal Assault Engineers is just...

Relic want OKW players to spawn Volks, since they "improved" an unit wich is suposted to break enemy lines, build defensive structures in enemy territory and hold until you got Obersoldaten or another doc. unit (wich is not gonna come until CP2 -at best-).
And, if they're mid-range units now, they gon have a bad time facing BAR riflemen...