Are Guards Ok Now?

Now that Guards buttoning has been nerfed significantly ( which was needed ) I wonder if anyone still use guards.

Are Guards still good or will they phase out to be never seen again like Su76s?

I myself wants Guards to be cheaper so they can be used like main infantry like the American riflemen like 300 manpower and they should not be dropping their ptrs rifles.

What do you guys think?

Guards: UP before Patch and more UP now.

Guards are absolutely wasteful. Not only they are cost-ineffective, they provide the axis with some free gear.

Ptrs is a waste of weapon slot, tbh. I leave them on the ground

I guess doubling PTRS effectiveness but reducing it to 1, is out of the book right?

I think button got overnerfed, in my opinion no nerf was needed at all.
In team games it punished blind tank rushes into the enemy line and therefore provided a huge threat to enemy armour when properly used in combined arms.
The button needs to be reversed to pre patch status or the costs decreased.

However the guards AI is good for it's price, a lot of players just saw the as the button guys and are simply frustrated because of that.
They are a long range combat unit and should be used like that.

Well, that button hasd to go. Now it can stop blind rushes, but it doesn't allow sovs to button + bomb run or button + ISU shock. That was cheesy peas.


So are they any use at all now? To hold back scout cars / OKW light V's they'll still work. They'll just take some actual micro, not just rely on buttoning.

The LmG is pretty good it seems. But I'd always take shocks instead. Shocks are fckn ridiculously strong though >:/

I still use guards and I've won 8/10 games with them. I think the button ability was overnerfed to the joke status of being called a 'button' ability.

I think the buttoned tank should have their main gun operational but the speed reduction is far too weak, it should almost completely stop. This way, the enemy unit can fight back - I would think twice about buttoning a tiger or an ostwind simply with guards, but it would mean I actually don't waste munitions on a useless ability that slows a tank down by 20% :/

But yes guards are still very useful...Know why? The PTRS is the enemy of all weapon teams - after about 10-15 shots from the PTRS a pak gun will explode, you just gotta keep hitting it. This is especially useful against OKW (with all those pesky racketens, Mg34s and inf support guns), but it's also useful killing Mg42s and Paks ( as well as the occasional mortar). So guards do not suck, but I think their button ability was over-raped. Also, it would be nice if guards didn't suffer from constant weapon drop, Relic. Thanks.

- a concerned guard spammer.

Why not make PTRS able to damage infantry? It will address several of key issues with this unit. After all PTRS is more similar to a high powered sniper rifle.

Before this patch I always used Guards in 2vs2 as they provided an option for you to pin a vehicle which is trying to circle your ZiS/SU-85 long enough for it to take damage and retreat. Two would guarantee success in case if opponent had smoke or attempts to retreat. The major weakness of Button ability was it's short range, any players with two brain cells would be able to kite guards all day long.

Now the Guards squad under performs compared to riflemen with m1919s in terms of anti infantry because the Guards are meant to counter vehicles and infantry so they would be mediocre against both.

So would it be better if players are able to specialize with the Guards? So it would either do better against infantry or vehicles?

For example, removing the ptrs when spawning a Guards squad but having an option to equip it with 4 dp28s or 4 ptrs or the regular. Like what you can do with the American riflemen you can get 2 BARs or 2 Bazookas or BAR and Bazooka.

The cost of Guards should also be reduced to 280.

I like the new button, yes its a heavy nerf, but it forces you to actually make a play with it,. Prior to the nerf a single guard squad could stop a tank in its tracks, with or without support, kinda silly, no?. You can still use it to get off an AT nade, get extra shots off with an ATG, or stall an advance. It feels much more rewarding when using it correctly, before I felt dirty and cheap when using the ability. A single infantry squad shouldn't be able to stop a tank in its tracks, no questions asked.

It says something about the prior strength of button when ostheer players are literally forced into a doctrine w/ smoke just to deal with guards.

no one complained about button, it was that way since launch

WFA did nothing to guards or button, why was it nerfed now?

I still think my suggestion to make Guards shoulder their PTRS is a good way to broaden their potential to combat infantry. Soviets have strong backs, no?

It feels like a crime against humanity when the two models of my Guards have to fire at the enemy infantry with their PTRS.

no one complained about button, it was that way since launch

WFA did nothing to guards or button, why was it nerfed now?

Because it was a frustrating ability that was only countered by doctrine choice (i.e. panzer tactician), which Relic made very clear when they explained the patch notes.

A lack of public outcry doesn't necessarily mean the ability was in a good spot. The kv-8 was bat shit crazy op for like the first 8 months of the game but after a while people quit talking about it because people accepted that Relic obviously thought it was fine.

I remember playing the beta and seeing another button ability and groaning at the fact that we had another cheesy coh1 brit ability hold over in the game. The fact that I didn't make a stink over it in the forums doesn't mean that I didn't think the ability was frustrating and broken.

This comment also implies that insightful complaining on the forums somehow influences Relics balance decisions, which simply isn't the case.

no one complained about button, it was that way since launch

WFA did nothing to guards or button, why was it nerfed now?

My guess is they didn't think about button when they made OKW light vehicle reliant. OKW doesn't have the counters to button that Wehr does (Panzer Tactician, Smoke Pots, even Mortar smoke), only Puma really had a chance to escape 2 Guards squads with button.

I guess Relic is trying to create more counterplay in this patch. However, they only looked at the ability and not how that unit performs within the game

I dunno, gaurds this patch are really meh.

Either make then anti infantry or anti tank, not this horrible mix of both....

Make them start with 6 mosins, and be able to upgrade to either 3 PTRS rifles or 2x DP

It says something about the prior strength of button when ostheer players are literally forced into a doctrine w/ smoke just to deal with guards.

As a Soviet player, I find smokescreen to be just as cheesy and unfair as Button ability. Smoke screen can save your tank from certain destruction, button ability used to do the same, save you from certain destruction by a tank.

I dunno, gaurds this patch are really meh.

Either make then anti infantry or anti tank, not this horrible mix of both....

Make them start with 6 mosins, and be able to upgrade to either 3 PTRS rifles or 2x DP

Problem is, PTRS guards would become nigh useless after 10 mins. And DP upgrade would be a no brainer choice.

Button should be something in between what it was before and what we have now.

I think the nerf was too much.

Guard Riflemen DP-28 ‘Button’
Speed reduction from 0.1 to 0.33
Added rotation reduction of 0.33
Acceleration from 0.1 to 0.5
Deceleration from 8 to 2
Main gun set to active
Main gun rate of fire set to fire 1.56x slower

Vehicle stun effect duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds (EDIT: affects Stuart, OKW puma against assault guns, Ostheer units had moved to another stun type though the old files still remain)

I think it was enough to reduce stun effect of button

I've been playing a lot with a guy who likes to play with guards. He doesn't pick up the PTRS when they drop. I think this speaks loads as to how well they are preforming for their intended roll as anti vehicle infantry. Basically, there not preforming at all. He uses them for two reasons, one they still do better then conscripts vs german infantry, and two they can throw a grenade.

I'm not sure what the right thing to do with guards is, but they definitely need to be changed from their current state.