The buffed Assault Engineers

I notice the flamethrower blows very very often. I had to stop getting it or just get it on 1, just for clearing garrisons.

Imo its better to spam the mines. take like 1 squad and pepper the map with the mines they stun and can occasionally crit a engine

lmao yeah been using these since patch and they rekt everything okw has early game if you get close range on a wagon it gets owned. Had a guy last night quit in 1:33 because i killed his wagon with 1 AE squad

they need a MP price increase to justify being better then ass grens and sturmpios at all ranges for cheaper mp

actually assgrens and sturmpios are better than assault engineers at medium and long range. (at least in terms of DPS)

mmm i may be mistaken then cant find that squad compare tool atm

Yes the MP-40 is better then the M3 at med to long range, and the StG-44 is no contest at med to long range (It's a Assault rifle after all)

MP-40 And M3 are not used at long range unless your in like green and stalling. Otherwise you are closing and getting to best range.

When at SMG range's M3's will waste a squad in literally 2-5 seconds.
MP-40's will loose a dps race vs the M3's the problem is not medium or long range DPS. The problem is at optimal ranges the M3's are just better.

I feel almost bad using them. They do scary damage.

I agree with a cost increase to 300-320, somewhere in there. That said, they are SO FUN NOW

Like Peter Qumsieh said today in his broadcast, you have to account not only for DPS but also for received accuracy modifiers.

Sturmpio had value redistributed such that they don't do as much up-close DPS but the tradeoff is better durability.

Assault Engies are still very weak to focus fire, especially on open ground, but they do damage if you can face hug with them.

Assymetrical balance.

If you have MG42 and Kubel at your disposal, allowing these guys to face hug is an error in tactical maneuver.

Like Peter Qumsieh said today in his broadcast, you have to account not only for DPS but also for received accuracy modifiers.

Sturmpio had value redistributed such that they don't do as much up-close DPS but the tradeoff is better durability.

Assault Engies are still very weak to focus fire, especially on open ground, but they do damage if you can face hug with them.

Assymetrical balance.

If you have MG42 and Kubel at your disposal, allowing these guys to face hug is an error in tactical maneuver.

Yeah but assault pioneers still beat the much more expensive sturmpioneers and that is something that shouldn't happen. And with the mg 42 with it's great surpression rate or the kübelwagen you can't be everywhere. Had a game last evening, the pioneers were flanking my mates mg it was wiped in 2 secs and that's a joke. Earlier i had a game where i was standing besides a maxim with my sturmpioneers. They were standing there for 4 secs and killed 1 man. And when i ordered them to kill a 1 man conscript on retreat that ran right trough them they weren't able to kill it. In my opinion the sturmpioneers are underperforming while the much cheaper assault pioneers are overperforming.

actually assgrens and sturmpios are better than assault engineers at medium and long range. (at least in terms of DPS)

That may be true in theory craft but in reality those Assault Engineers are going to practically sprint up to their intended range while Assault Grenadiers and Sturmpioneers don't do even close to enough damage at range to force them away because of that huge damage drop off.


GG Relic.

Yeah but assault pioneers still beat the much more expensive sturmpioneers and that is something that shouldn't happen. And with the mg 42 with it's great surpression rate or the kübelwagen you can't be everywhere. Had a game last evening, the pioneers were flanking my mates mg it was wiped in 2 secs and that's a joke. Earlier i had a game where i was standing besides a maxim with my sturmpioneers. They were standing there for 4 secs and killed 1 man. And when i ordered them to kill a 1 man conscript on retreat that ran right trough them they weren't able to kill it. In my opinion the sturmpioneers are underperforming while the much cheaper assault pioneers are overperforming.

It's a matter of range here. Sturm Pio in cover should handily beat Assault Engie charging over open ground. All Assault Engie got was DPS increase... their received accuracy still makes them fragile units, far more fragile than Sturm Pio.

It's not as simple as "Assault Engie beats Sturm Pio...outrage!" It's "If you let Assault Engie maneuver into pointblank range without incoming fire while they do so, they can win."

You can't simply talk about the two units in a vacuum absent cover and positioning. Intelligently used Sturm Pio should and will beat Assault Engie. It's two different designs. Look at it from the designer's perspective. He wants assymetrical, interesting balance.

So it's like this now:

Sturm Pio - You start with one for free. It beats every other free starting infantry bar none. It leaves you with the option to use any doctrine you want. So if you choose, you can pair it with an MG34. Sturm Pio has great durability and better DPS at mid and long range than Assault Engie. What this means is that early game, Sturm Pio is meant to be tough as nails and offer up good DPS at mid range and beat every starting allied infantry up-close EXCEPT for Assault Engie, which is the only starting infantry that has a near-range advantage.

Assault Engie - You have to buy him, which limits your other options. It has superior DPS but worse received accuracy than Sturm Pio. Assault Engie is meant to be a somewhat fragile, but versatile unit that is rewarded for using truesight blindspots and cover to advance as close to the enemy as possible without taking damage along the way. Hence the "Assault" part of their name.

A "blob" of Assault Engie can be suppressed by the terrific MG42 suppression AOE or you can take individual squads out of action with the kubel while supporting infantry stay back and focus fire the advancing ones.

TL;DR: Sturm Pio = great durability + good damage at all ranges. Assault Engie = bad durability + great damage up close

2 different designs -- 2 different intended roles.

It's not as simple as "Assault Engie beats Sturm Pio...outrage!" It's "If you let Assault Engie maneuver into pointblank range without incoming fire while they do so, they can win."

A "blob" of Assault Engie can be suppressed by the terrific MG42 suppression AOE or you can take individual squads out of action with the kubel while supporting infantry stay back and focus fire the advancing ones.

TL;DR: Sturm Pio = great durability + good damage at all ranges. Assault Engie = bad durability + great damage up close

2 different designs -- 2 different intended roles.

Very big post that say's nothing. On field, u can outspam sturmpios because assault engies are cheaper and u get them at 0cp. And u can beat sturmpios easly with this cheaper unit if u dont rush them across red cover. What the hell is that sh*t about suppresing by terrific mg42? Is that a joke or what? Same thing for the rest of that post, what's that supposed to mean? Is that a proof that they are not overperforming for their price? Because u can suppers them? Or you are saying how we are supposed to deal with them? Because that is very specific situation then.
They are OP now, at least give them a thompsons SMG so it looks normal, not that a CQB situation m3 outperforms a stg44.

Very big post that say's nothing. On field, u can outspam sturmpios because assault engies are cheaper and u get them at 0cp. And u can beat sturmpios easly with this cheaper unit if u dont rush them across red cover. What the hell is that sh*t about suppresing by terrific mg42? Is that a joke or what? Same thing for the rest of that post, what's that supposed to mean? Is that a proof that they are not overperforming for their price? Because u can suppers them? Or you are saying how we are supposed to deal with them? Because that is very specific situation then.
They are OP now, at least give them a thompsons SMG so it looks normal, not that a CQB m3 outperforms a stg44.

Hint:
Do exactly what soviets did against AGs in the past.

It works.

Hint:
Do exactly what soviets did against AGs in the past.

It works.

But that's the thing: I am ok with Ass engies being good but why should Ass grens be bad when they fulfill the same role and cost the same have low utility and worse combat stats.

Hint:
Do exactly what soviets did against AGs in the past.

It works.

You mean, complain and wait for them to be patched to cost munitions?

Or load infantry up into the equivalent garrison vehicle which neither of the German factions have?

OKW doesn't have it so bad due to kubel, sturms, MG34, and slightly later, puma/flaktrack. I've yet to face them as wehr but it could be pretty nasty on some maps, esp since any significant investment into infantry will leave you open to the lieut tech vehicle. Veto stalingrad if you hadn't already, I guess.

You mean, complain and wait for them to be patched to cost munitions?

Or load infantry up into the equivalent garrison vehicle which neither of the German factions have?

OKW doesn't have it so bad due to kubel, sturms, MG34, and slightly later, puma/flaktrack. I've yet to face them as wehr but it could be pretty nasty on some maps, esp since any significant investment into infantry will leave you open to the lieut tech vehicle. Veto stalingrad if you hadn't already, I guess.

Who doesnt veto Stalingrad as Axis?
Mechanized Groups

Who doesnt veto Stalingrad as Axis?

I don't with OKW, because STG Obers + King Tiger

Mechanized Groups

M20 arrives 4-6 minutes into the game, about 1 1/2 CPs earlier than a mech group I think.

I don't see a problem, they still die like flies if focussed fired.

Hint:
Do exactly what soviets did against AGs in the past.

It works.

You mean bitch and moan about it until Relic crumbles to the pressure and nerfs them into the ground?

Edit: Ah! Strummingbird beat me to it!

actually assgrens and sturmpios are better than assault engineers at medium and long range. (at least in terms of DPS)

Assault Grens advantage? You mean the half of 1DPS advantage? That's miniscule, not even worth considering, and doesn't even come into play until after around 25 meters. You can literally wait a full minute and the two squads will still be going at it.

Sturmpioneers advantage is a small window at mid-range, where they actually do measurable damage, without AE's DPS overtaking theirs, which only requires them to step forward a few meters.