Ninja changes for 9.9 patch

not a good explanation, Kubel is viable.

It is far better than just "viable".

Anyway, the ninja change killed Rakatenwerfer. Without vet they sucks.

So because I don't fall into the quintessential "Nazi hating" Allied fanboy mentality of "everything German is OP and must die" I'm labeled as delusional?

No, you're incredibly axis biased.

Oh and I saw you got banned from the official forums, explains why you're here.

No, you're incredibly axis biased.

Oh and I saw you got banned from the official forums, explains why you're here.

vs the norm of incredibly Allied biased?


I'll take my chances, besides Relic "moderation" is incredibly biased against Axis advocates.

vs the norm of incredibly Allied biased?


I'll take my chances, besides Relic "moderation" is incredibly biased against Axis advocates.

You're psychotic, take some drugs...
Or try to play soviet/us...

You're psychotic, take some drugs...
Or try to play soviet/us...

That's productive, moving straight onto insults and advising the use of mind altering substances. You must be a hit with kids and parents alike.

Also no, did plenty of that with every other WWII game, thought I'd mix it up as an Axis purist player. I shouldn't be pigeon holed into playing factions that I don't want to play as just to be able to achieve an undeserved victory with EZ-Cheezy Options like Rifleblobs and Maxim Spam - into Shocktroop spam - T-34/76/85 Spam.

At this rate Sierra, you won't last long around here either. Milka is a numbers and balance expert. Perhaps it would be better to learn the ins and outs of this forum and it's members before going off the deep end? The kubel was specifically buffed this patch. Give it several tries. As I mentioned in the other thread, there needs to be a lot more games played before any final answers can be given.

At this rate Sierra, you won't last long around here either. Milka is a numbers and balance expert. Perhaps it would be better to learn the ins and outs of this forum and it's members before going off the deep end? The kubel was specifically buffed this patch. Give it several tries. As I mentioned in the other thread, there needs to be a lot more games played before any final answers can be given.

I may not be a mathematical genius, but I do recognize the influence that specific changes in numbers can have to the overall flow of gameplay. I can already tell you that the kubelwagen changes while significant won't be enough. The Sturmpioneer changes were damaging to the overall OKW gameplay and will likely result in less people playing as OKW, and OKW as a whole playing less effectively than ever before.


So ask this question, balance is balanced, but balanced for "whom"?

I relied on them as my only RELIABLE close/mid range infantry. Never built more than one extra squad aside from the starting squad.

That's the overall problem though, the Axis as a whole don't have any strong or reliable mid/close range squads to deal with the Allies in mid/close range combat. Fallschirmjaeger are far too frail outside of cover to do that job. Panzergrenadiers are... well have been pathetic for quite some time. Sturmpioneers were doing that job well in spades up until this recent nerf to them.


Jaeger Light Infantry were okay but without grenades never truly shined...


So tell me what exactly should Axis use for mid/close quarters?

Axis have always been a long range faction. For OKW, panzerfusilier work fairly well at range, and blobbing them works well. Volksgrenadier blobbing also works rather well since there are so many that they are rather durable, and with grenade assault (from commander), it would be bad for enemy to get to close range to deal with them (10 muni, but short range - timing it right can have amazing results and a dead enemy squad). Panzerschrecks keep light tanks and lone mediums off them, and if they all have panzerschrecks, a proper counter for them usually arrive by the time you get a panther. People complain about fallshirmjagers being OP, but they are too frail for me as well. Stuka zu fuss (but costs fuel) is pretty effective at keeping large amounts of clumped enemy infantry off of you.

In this game, long range has always been superior to short range. What i mean is, a long ranged squad can wear down a close combat squad to a point that when the CC squad is at the proper range to attack, it has already lost too many men to kill whatever it was going to attack and has to retreat. There are some maps that make short range units perform better, but cover is your friend. Timed grenades are useful as well. Its more advantageous to stand there and fire from afar than needing to run in close to be able to deal damage. Shocks have armor and smoke grenades to negate this, but it would be hard for them to be useful if they did not.

The main thing is long range and green cover work very well for OKW. Good micro on, well, blobs of volksgrenadiers and panzerfusiliers counter Allies somewhat well. Blobs usually can kill the gunner of mg's, rendering it useless as tons of rifles from squads gun the squad down as the next gunner gets into position. I usually have never built more than two sturmpioneers because they are expensive to produce and reinforce. They still perform well as flanking infantry (STG's still deal a ton of damage).

Now here is what i cannot explain. Ostheer is very screwed against USF. I cannot tell you how to deal with rifle spam as Ostheer. As OKW, i answer one spam with my own spam. Snipers arent that effective vs. blobs, and volks and panzerfusilier are cheap to reinforce. An obersoldaten squad or two is good for assisting with DPS. But when you spam panzerfusiliers, you have to remember not to fall back on AT.

And AE super DPS buff; i dont even know. It surely needs to be less, or the squad needs to cost substantially more.

JLI are pretty good spammed. Their G43 kills a model if the model has less than 75% health, i believe. A squad that tries to close in on some JLI would lose a lot of models on the way, and throwing a grenade assault in their path would kill them/keep them away. But you will have to find a way to keep up wuth AT or a suprise t34 or m15 will ruin your day. Yes, JLJ are no longer close range killers...

Anyways, dont hate on me for what i cannot explain and what i have observed. This is my honest insight, and the game is far from perfect. I will not defend Allied cheese units, but Axis (mostly OKW) have some good units and tricks up their sleeve as well. There will always be difficulty dealing with Allies, but Allies also have their own difficulties dealing with Axis.

I usually play several custom 2v2's a day, 3 days a week with my friend as strictly OKW. Sometimes we win by a landslide, sometimes winning a close match, and sometimes losing to ISU's.

The raketenwerfer and weapons with similar projectiles hit the ground too often, but that is a real, separate discussion for improving the weapon projectile.

I play more 1v1, and with old patch i seen ghost bullets from the sgt44, imagine now...

Non realistic combat for balance, i hate this...

I relied on them as my only RELIABLE close/mid range infantry. Never built more than one extra squad aside from the starting squad.

That's the overall problem though, the Axis as a whole don't have any strong or reliable mid/close range squads to deal with the Allies in mid/close range combat. Fallschirmjaeger are far too frail outside of cover to do that job. Panzergrenadiers are... well have been pathetic for quite some time. Sturmpioneers were doing that job well in spades up until this recent nerf to them.


Jaeger Light Infantry were okay but without grenades never truly shined...


So tell me what exactly should Axis use for mid/close quarters?

JLI now chew nails and spit napalm. These guys can cut down even Shocks with ease if they can get a modicum of support to wound them first. for 300 MP they are one hell of a powerful squad, and they got grenades besides now.

Falls are a bit overpriced, but IMO units coming from buildings should have a price bump, it's other similar infantry that are underpriced.

PGrens, now you're just dead wrong. The patch gave them a hefty buff and they can now stand toe to toe with almost anything save Shocks and 1919 rifles/paras.

You also still have Obers, who rape anything at all ranges. You still have Panzerfusiliers who are still great at all ranges. All the units I cited also have grenades whi allow them to equalize a close range fight.

And finally, Sturmpios are perfect where they are. I still use them, they still beat anything early game short of stationary rifles in cover 1v1. Used in tandem with the reliable Volks (dat vet, dat grenade) and the buffed Kubel (which is now a bit of a monster), you simply cannot say that OKW has a poor early game. Even moreso if they can get their hands on a measly 55 fuel to get out the now very powerful flak HT which acts like a super MG of massive area denial goodness.

Kubel is too frail and dies too easily from focused fire. Therefore not as viable as an infantry based MG team.


By the way, who the hell are you to decide whether or not an explanation is "good enough"?

Talking to me about posting arrogantly and then some jackass like you comes along.

of course the kubelwagen doesnt make a good infantry based MG team, its an MG mounted on a car. If you use the kubelwagen like its an regular HMG infantry squad youre going to have a bad time.

Relax Sierra.



SP still good as a mid/close range T0 unit. It can win fights early versus any t0 unit up close. Its close range damage was nerfed but it still rocks as a flanker unit

A well thought change, because this is what the game needs.
Who needs conscripts, when you have maxims.

Yeah might as well remove conscripts from the game!

I got 3 opponents this morning, whining to me how OP is Kubel

No one deserves that insult.

Well, its true.

Well, its true.

except you

except you

kettle vs pot

Fixed soviet weapon teams not getting received accuracy mods in recent hotfix
Button does in fact get 1.56 reload mods; there are two 1.25 mods that get applied
Vehicle stun is still 5 seconds, We made a unique critical that just the Stuart uses

The rest of Cruzz's post is fair game.

Thx and thx to cruzz as well

Why don't they just post a complete changelog? seriously -.-

Because Relic is the antithesis of professional.

Patches are rife with typos, false information and hidden changes every time.

Don't get me wrong I like this patch but JESUS Relic step. it. up.