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russian armor

T-34/76

10 Sep 2014, 17:25 PM
#61
avatar of PingPing

Posts: 329



The T34/76 got a unlisted buff in the last patch. The KV-1 should have 1 sec less reload due to the fact it has a bigger turret and crew, but since they shared the same gun (file wise) this also buffed the T34. This patch fixed this. Should have close to no impact on the game anyways as it's still dominated by call-ins. If the T34/76 is too weak now then it's probably giving a buff. Considering that out of each 30 trials at 10 / 20 / 30 range the T34 won on average 43% of the times vs a PIV (Most on short range, least on long range) I guess it's fine. I know it's not a perfect test and the sample size is small, yet it's the best data I could create without dedicated tools D:


So basically you're saying that Relic messed up and actually did something CORRECTLY....so now they're "fixing" this to make it "working as intended"?

Sounds about right.

If there was ever a unit that was fine the way it was - it was the T34.

All I can hope for is DOW3 - so they do a COH - i.e. get bored with supporting it as they have a new project and hand the balance reins over to community members - seems the only way things get done right.
10 Sep 2014, 17:35 PM
#62
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

I'm starting to hate all the comparatives between T34/76 and PanzerIV that tend to forget schrecks, 100%-effective fausts and faster-shooting Paks.

Even if numbers say that both tanks are very similar, in the actual game, T34/76 has a lot more chances to die first. Is not fair a cost of 25 more fuel? For a higher probability to survive in a fight face to face and better AI power, vet bonuses and with a MUCH better support, I think that yes.

Prepatch T34/76 was out of the meta due to things like that even its supposed role as AI tank was worse than PzIV's. Adding more reload (even if it's a fix) just gives more reasons to skip T3 completely and go for call-ins.
10 Sep 2014, 17:38 PM
#63
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

i dunno, maybe a cost decrease? Say to 95 or 90 fuel.
10 Sep 2014, 18:13 PM
#64
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 17:07 PMKatitof
*cough*SU-76, ZiS-3*cough*


222 Armoured Car, Panzer II Luchs :P
10 Sep 2014, 18:27 PM
#65
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

It is nerfed hard.
p4's just roll 'm, not cool.
10 Sep 2014, 18:54 PM
#66
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

It is nerfed hard.
p4's just roll 'm, not cool.


considering the cost difference shouldn't they roll them?
10 Sep 2014, 19:03 PM
#67
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

Just sounds like making up reasons to me. You shouldnt have to find a reason why Relic does things. When you do, the validity of the change is questionable.


brac, obviously I am not a developer, but I am certain these changes are for balance purposes. Take weapons and units for example. Volksgrenadiers and Obersoldaten use the same rifle, the KAR98k. However, they have different stats such as reload, damage, etc for balance purposes.
10 Sep 2014, 19:15 PM
#68
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 17:35 PMGreeb
I'm starting to hate all the comparatives between T34/76 and PanzerIV that tend to forget schrecks, 100%-effective fausts and faster-shooting Paks.

Even if numbers say that both tanks are very similar, in the actual game, T34/76 has a lot more chances to die first. Is not fair a cost of 25 more fuel? For a higher probability to survive in a fight face to face and better AI power, vet bonuses and with a MUCH better support, I think that yes.

Prepatch T34/76 was out of the meta due to things like that even its supposed role as AI tank was worse than PzIV's. Adding more reload (even if it's a fix) just gives more reasons to skip T3 completely and go for call-ins.


+1


People like to compare the T34 and PZ4 directly but this is silly in the actual game for the reasons you mentioned
10 Sep 2014, 20:48 PM
#69
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Sep 2014, 18:54 PMJaigen


considering the cost difference shouldn't they roll them?


Not that much, given that P4 also get much better AI and veterancy. For 40 mp 25fu more, I'd take a P4 over a T-34 any day of the week, especially given that at least Ostheer T3 is not a teching dead-end. That's without mentioning Ostheer having generally better AT (shrecks, PaKs, free faust, early StuG).

But the main problem is the balance within the Soviet faction. T3 and T4 already aren't very attractive in most scenarios, nerfing the T-34 only exacerbates the problem and encourages the call-in meta even more. T3 has basically nothing else that is viable, and you are almost always better off getting T-34/85s or an IS-2. T4 at least is situationally viable thanks to SU-85s and Katyushas but even that is pretty much replaced by the ISU-152.
11 Sep 2014, 01:16 AM
#70
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

While the change had to be done (fixing a "bug"), it's on the same order of what happened to PG on a previous patch (they were "fine/underperforming for someones) and where they took out a bit of receive accuracy.

11 Sep 2014, 02:11 AM
#71
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

So, last patch I had fallen into a rhythm of using t34/76s because I found them to be a solid tank if well microed. With this new "bug fix," t34s are nigh useless due to the number of at weapons they must fight and the amount of damage they manage to do. I think the best idea at this point would be to revert t34 to their good old super AI tank status that they used to hold a while ago, and then give us the much needed t70/ su76 swap. As the game stands now, t34s are not cost efficient for what they do, especially since they are the only worthwile unit in their tier for the most part.
11 Sep 2014, 07:19 AM
#72
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

t34s are nigh usless due to the number of at weapons they must fight and the amount of damage they manage to do.


That's the key phrase.

T34/76 is expected to be the armored backbone of soviet army, but its damage output and armor can't do nothing against the number of threats it has to fight (Faster reloading Paks, Schrecks, 100% effective Fausts...). Even more, its role is obscure as it is inferior to its axis counterpart in all fields, AI and AT. It even doesn't have a coaxial hmg...

Axis medium tanks like Stug, PzIV, Puma, etc, have a HUGE survivality rate compared with T34 because all their AT threats are way inferior and still they have doctrinal abilities to help them to survive like blitz and smoke.
11 Sep 2014, 07:52 AM
#73
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2014, 07:19 AMGreeb


That's the key phrase.

T34/76 is expected to be the armored backbone of soviet army, but its damage output and armor can't do nothing against the number of threats it has to fight (Faster reloading Paks, Schrecks, 100% effective Fausts...). Even more, its role is obscure as it is inferior to its axis counterpart in all fields, AI and AT. It even doesn't have a coaxial hmg...

Axis medium tanks like Stug, PzIV, Puma, etc, have a HUGE survivality rate compared with T34 because all their AT threats are way inferior and still they have doctrinal abilities to help them to survive like blitz and smoke.
The armor game disparity is ridiculous. I get trying to display germany's tank dominance, but Relic consistently goes far beyond that. Despite the constantly shifting balance, not once in the history of Company of Heroes has an allies late game been better then any german's.
11 Sep 2014, 17:10 PM
#74
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

So, last patch I had fallen into a rhythm of using t34/76s because I found them to be a solid tank if well microed. With this new "bug fix," t34s are nigh useless due to the number of at weapons they must fight and the amount of damage they manage to do. I think the best idea at this point would be to revert t34 to their good old super AI tank status that they used to hold a while ago, and then give us the much needed t70/ su76 swap. As the game stands now, t34s are not cost efficient for what they do, especially since they are the only worthwile unit in their tier for the most part.

Spot on post.
11 Sep 2014, 17:31 PM
#75
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

The armor game disparity is ridiculous. I get trying to display germany's tank dominance, but Relic consistently goes far beyond that. Despite the constantly shifting balance, not once in the history of Company of Heroes has an allies late game been better then any german's.


Remember that day when Relic had to make the armor patch for all the Soviet armor because it was so imbalanced? I do. *tears* Sadly, we are returning to that pre-patch state. The exception to this though is the ISU152 and IS2. I believe both of those tanks are lovely.
11 Sep 2014, 17:34 PM
#76
avatar of Lateralus

Posts: 39

just use the T-34/85 dual call in like every other soviet player and ignore building the /76

(I hate the T-34/85 call in with a passion)
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