Stormpioneers post patch

After a few games I have to admit Stormpioneers feel underwhelming with the new patch.
Before the patch they were a glass cannon unit that could, if properly used for flanks inflict a lot of damage. More importantly your flanking opposed a serious threat to soviet snipers and they seemed a good unit to oppose maxim & sniper spam.

With the new patch, they feel rather weak now since their dps range got nerfed pretty badly:

Near range distance from 8 to 3
Mid range distance from 16 to 15
Far mid distance from 35 to 28

The decreased received accuracy modifier doesn't make up for that in my opinion.
Before the patch they were scaling bad into late game, after the patch, they scale even worse. I honestly don't see a reason for a double Stormpio build anymore, with the exception of certain maps like Stalingrad and Ettelbrück.



Update 10.09:

As Cruzz pointed out Soviet weapon teams are more durable now, due the removed Received Accuarcy modifer (25 %). Together with the Sturmpio damage nerf, this is a double Nerf.

Personal Note: I find it funny that Assault Engineers with M3 Grease Guns now outperform Sturmpios (elite troops lol) with their Stg 44.

Assault Engineer M3

Range distance near from 8 to 10
Range distance mid from 14 to 18

Maybe the Stg 44 'range distance near' nerf was a typo in Relic Quality Management Process? I mean 9 and 3 look alike. I know this game is not about realism, but grease guns better than STG 44? That breaks immersion since they have the same squad size.

Thanks to Ipkai for the image. Here you see the new dps profile



Comparison between Sturmpioneers and Assault Engineers (thanks to Milkacow,):



Here you have his opinion about the Stormpioneer issue.


Furthermore our beloved Senior-Strategist Milkacow made a very informative post about units and their effective ranges, clearyfing confusions Players like me might have.
Read here and here for more information.

TensaiOni made a tool that lets you compare the damage output of squads.
You can find it here.

When I'm back home (around Friday) I gonna upload some videos which standard combat situations between Sturmpios and allies core infantry.

Yes , they got nerfed and i agree they feel underwhelming.
vs USF you dont really take too much of a hit now with the Kübel being super good. Volks also act stronger when used properly.

vs sov however they dont act well so far.
Thats just what i feel like after a couple of games though

I think the change was well needed due to the community being so team game based. The problem was not terribly evident in 1v1s, but in any choke point maps or urban maps, multiple sturm pios were incredibly overwhelming to deal with without application of cheese.

Also its hard to say a unit scales poorly in the late game when it gets 5 levels of vet, 3 of which directly influence combat ability. They never scaled poorly, just worse in comparison to that of a pure combat unit of OKW

They arent that bad. Sturmpioneers can do much more than eat squads at close range. Its just now they lose a few models in fights they normally win with no men lost.

They are still by far the best starting builder infantry.

sturmpios are still incredibly strong in close range though and you need to back up and stay out of their cqb zone to win, and if you dont the sturmpios will win out...

They just dont insta whipe MGs when they flank them anymore.

IMO i think the nerf is justified, theyre tier 0 units, they shouldnt be able to instawhipe.

They are terrible now. And nowhere near 320Mp.

They need to be reduced to Rifleman cost.

no way, they still beat riflemen in close range.

This was an over due adjustment.

This was an over due adjustment.

Agreed.

They dont beat rifles unless you meet them directly at close range , you cant even try to close in because that will lose you the engagement.

They also lose to assault engineers now .
They have a terrible damage output now compared to before .
If you argue for a nerf by tuning down damage - make them at least more durable - that recieved accuary modifier does not justify such a hefty nerf.

You needed them to do lots of damage though to compliment the meatshield that are volks. Now you have volks who lose even harder to cons after patch ( but perform better at range i know , that is only when standing still though - moving punishes you hard ).

With this nerf and many others that this patch broght to almost all OKW infantry, I realy wonder what this faction should rely on. Vehicles it's not the case (they can't build a decent number of them in a match), now main infantry became weaker (sturmpios, volks, hmgs). So what should they relay on? Kubelwagen?
I think these changes are wrong.

I think the change was well needed due to the community being so team game based. The problem was not terribly evident in 1v1s, but in any choke point maps or urban maps, multiple sturm pios were incredibly overwhelming to deal with without application of cheese.

If this were the problem, I'd much rather they lower the price but start with Assault Gren MP 40's, with the option to buy StG's available once T1 or T2 is established.

With this nerf and many others that this patch broght to almost all OKW infantry, I realy wonder what this faction should rely on. Vehicles it's not the case (they can't build a decent number of them in a match), now main infantry became weaker (sturmpios, volks, hmgs). So what should they relay on? Kubelwagen?
I think these changes are wrong.

I have no idea which person is head of the balance team but he is destroying relic's game. Which is unfortunate since its a great game.

He needs to be sacked immediately. THey have nerfed axis infantry to oblivion

With this nerf and many others that this patch broght to almost all OKW infantry, I realy wonder what this faction should rely on. Vehicles it's not the case (they can't build a decent number of them in a match), now main infantry became weaker (sturmpios, volks, hmgs). So what should they relay on? Kubelwagen?
I think these changes are wrong.

That's exactly my concern, seems now you are encouraged even more to float manpower till you can get out units that are more viable.
Dumbing down core infantry makes you more exposed you cheese tactics, early m3's became now stronger against okw, since your sturmpios inflict less damage to them.

Proper unit positioning and flanking is now less rewarded, maxims can escape easier because of this.
And the riflemen blob is still a ball of death rolling through your units.

The problem is not just the direct nerf on the Pios, with synergy to the buffs of allied core infantry you are double nerfed and this is what renders the uselessness of sturmpios. They are definitely more of a burden than a help with their 320 mp.

Sturmpio needs to revert pre-patch, at least buff them with vet, they are silly now.

Use cover to close in. They still rape things when played properly.

Use cover to close in. They still rape things when played properly.

Great, even more micro intensive German gameplay... meanwhile we still have 1.5 armor shocktroops that run across open fields and ignore cover, and now American Assault Engineers, function in the capacity that the STG-44 wielding Sturmpioneers used to....


That said, even when using cover to close in, you're going to have to take the longer route, meaning you're going to have to take more time, which means more prolonged exposure to enemy fire, that by the time you actually get there, you'll have to retreat.

Have you tried using them at an optimal range against certain opponents?

After all, they still beat rifles at ~20 range or closer and assault engineers at any range over 13 (just to give some examples).

They just dont insta whipe MGs when they flank them anymore.

That's most likely the effect of the undocumented received accuracy buff for soviet weapon teams (probably a bug though).

Updated my post.

Sturmpios were okayish last patch, haven't had a chance to play them this patch but IMO they only needed a tiny tone down in terms of DPS so they didn't eat enemies quite as effectively, this seems a bit too far.